VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1949-1954 NO START

Recall both of my '51's have not been driven since last June. Garaged and waiting their turn to be on the road.

On my '51 with the '55 235, I decided to do some maintenance, before getting her out of the garage. She is being transported to NC this coming Saturday.

As maintenance, before the current "no start" was known, I bought and installed a new battery, new 1 gauge battery cables, new cap, rotor, points, condenser, ignition coil and AC plug wires. I don't like surprises on the road, if I can avoid them.

I DID NOT start the car before installing the new parts. Cold engine, just went into the new parts replacements.

Cap, rotor, points and condenser are Echlin products.

Coil was purchased "new", but that was some time back ... and I do not recall where it was purchased.

Only marking on coil is " 6 Volt ". No brand name, to be seen.

I did have the distributor out, when I installed points and condenser, but I've had 235 dizzys out in the past, with no snags, but now snags are plentiful.

With all that is going on in our household, I could have made 6 mistakes and not have known it.

Clearly I'm missing something here, and am now against the wall.

After installing the above listed parts, I had a no start ...... discovered no power to the + side of the coil.

Hot wired it, had power to the + side of coil, as I would expect. Still a no start.

Because I did not want to splice into wire going to + side of coil, I ran a new 16 gauge wire from ign. switch to + side of coil. Test light indicated I now have power at + side of coil, when key is on.

Still a no start.

Cranks just fine, but not the slightest inclination of wanting to fire / start.

Spark plugs were on the newer side, were not replaced with the above parts.

However, after coaxing with ether spray, and a a touch of fuel into the throat of the carb, the plugs are now wet.

Transporter is coming Saturday for this car, house is sold, closing is Thursday.

Car has to be out of its home/garage by Thursday, she's going to a different pick up point for the transporter.

Even though above listed parts are new, give me ideas as to checking coil or points or condenser or anything else that comes to your minds.

Most of my tools are in NC already, I only have a test light to work with now. No meters here.

Time is getting close.

Transporter has a winch, but I'd like to drive her onto the trailer, not winch her.

Any common sense answers will be treated with the highest regard, since my common sense has left the building.

Check the continuity between the points. If there is no continuity, file the points and check again. I have found that sometimes new points do not have continuity unless they are cleaned.

If the points are fine and the car still does not start, I would replace the new condenser with another new condenser. If that doesn't work replace the new coil with another coil. Even though both parts are new one or both could be bad.

Make sure that when you installed your distributor that you did not install it 180 degrees out of time.

Check the old rotor to see if it matches the new one. I tuned up my 51 and learned that someone changed the distributor to a later one and the 51 rotor is shorter.

Are you getting fire to the spark plugs? Easy test.

a. It should jump if you hold the end of the spark plug wire close to the plug. Use a piece of metal to go up into the end of the plug wire if necessary.

b. Hold on to the end of the wire, you should then jump.

c. Check that the distributor is grounded, if necessary.

Generally,

a. if you are getting fire,

b. the engine is in time

c. Spark plug wires are correctly sorted

d. there is fuel getting to the cylinders, then something has to go, i.e., it has to fire up.

Good luck,

Charlie

When you put the car away last June, did you put stabilizer in the gas? If not, it could be that the gas left in the carburetor has gone gummy just enough that the carb can't do its job. Just a thought!

I understand your thoughts of new parts being bad. I have seen that scenario throughout the years.

How will I check for continuity in points?

After I reinstalled dist, I cranked engine, held my index finger by cylinder, until I felt compression of cylinder,

At that point, I looked at location of rotor.

If rotor was pointing at 3 o clock position, I made number one plug wire one terminal above or before 3 o clock, as in 2 o clock position area.. Then using 153624 (clockwise rotation) to set other wires into cap.

Eye sight is not keen enough to spot BB ... and I cannot paint BB white, if I cannot see it.

No one else to check BB for me, just my wife and I in this area, in which we live.

Good point.

Old rotor is gone in the trash.

The engine is a 1955, but am not certain if the dist is a '55 or '51.

I would have to read number on dist plate, but not certain if I could read that number, without removing the dist again.

P.S. Doing Charlies spark plug wire test, to see if I have spark. If spark is there, everything under the cap must be OK. Agree?

How will I check to see if dist is grounded?

When I stopped using the car last June, a new tank was installed, due to a rock, stone, debris of some sort that punctured the tank. It could have been repaired, but I opted to replace the tank, being that the tank was there since 1951.

No fuel was put into the new tank, until a couple of weeks ago.

When I DID put fuel in, I only put in 4 gallons of fresh fuel. Maybe not enough to draw through fuel lines?

I have not cranked and cranked engine to draw fuel up through lines, etc. Did not want to wear new battery down .... my chargers are already in NC, with my tools. UGH.

Instead I added some fuel directly to throat of carb (maybe 2 ounces) then also tried ether.

Unsnap the cap and turn it over. Just set the rotor inside the cap to see if it looks like it fits correctly. With the rotor top contact centered in the cap the end contact should be close to the cap contact. My wrong rotor was almost 1/4" away. The red flag goes up when you say you are not certain which dist you have.

Agree to the red flag.

You're saying the rotor you are speaking of was 1/4" SHORT of reaching out to the individual contacts in the distributor ? SHORT means outward reach, not height, correct ?

You had a 216 rotor in a 235 cap ?

When I ordered new dist parts, it was some time ago, less than a year, however.

I always keep a spare set of dist parts, but cannot tell you NOW, if I ordered parts for the 216 or 235 dist.

I actually have a complete 235 spare dist, with all its parts, ready to install, if the need occurred, on the road.

You guessed it ..... the other dist is already in NC, as well.

You can check the continuity with an ohm meter. However, since all you have is a test light, with the points closed put one end of the test light on one point arm and the other end of the test light on the other point arm. If the test light comes on you have continuity through the points. If it doesn't come on you don't have continuity.

Yes!

That is plenty of fuel in the tank to be drawn through the fuel lines.

Thanks for your answers.

Yes, all that is left here is me and my test light.

If I then have spark at the plug wire end to the block or the spark plug, I have continuity at the points, as well and the coil is alive and well and the rotor is correct one. Am I correct on all this ?

Yes.

I went through everything you're going through once… an hour later I found the rotor sitting on the bench that I forgot to put back on! The symptoms you're showing sound the same. I'd check the rotor size, as Steve suggested…

Take the running car to NC first, and return with the spare parts for the other one. It may be a quick fix...

I'll begin with the spark plug wire test, looking for a spark.

Dumb questions, I will admit, but have to say my head is plugged to the point, where nothing is making sense. Less than usual, I would say.

This move to NC, followed by car issues has put my mind into "system overload".

Thanks Bruce for the comments and the ideas. All are appreciated.

Hate to admit this story, but true.

Many years ago, my brother in law had a 1959 ? Rambler.

Rod knock. Pulled the engine, pulled the crank, sent crank to machine shop.

Rings, rod bearings, main bearings and head machining followed.

All done in a single car garage by me ..... and my brother in law.

Engine was put back together, got the engine reinstalled in the car.

We were putting on the hood, when we noticed the oil pump sitting on the work bench.

UGH !

if you don't get spark from the plug wire check the coil output wire next.

OK. Thanks, Steve.

If all the electrics check out OK, I'd still suspect the carb. If the motor has not actually been running since last June, it's that small amount of gas left in the carb at last shut-off that I'd suspect. I've been told by more than one person in the fuel industry that gas will start going gummy now in less than a month as the refiners figure most gas is used by that time so no longer add the anti-gumming stuff. - another way to save a nickel in production costs. Did you change the carb, or rebuild it since last June?

Electrics do not check out OK.

Coil was replaced with a new coil that I had purchased some time ago, as maintenance only.

Car ran with previous coil.

I have power to + side of coil.

I have continuity at ignition points.

I do NOT have any spark from spark plug wire, when touching plug or block.

I do NOT have any spark when touching coil wire near block.

While cranking, the + side of coil continues to have power.

A Doyle Stokes Rebuilt carb was installed two weeks ago, along with a Doyle Stokes fuel pump.

Carb leaked fuel, took the Doyle fuel pump off, reinstalled old fuel pump no leak .... until today.

The Doyle carb is now leaking again, this time by the plug at the front of the carb base.

New fuel tank on car, first 4 gallons just went in recently.

Electrics have me stumped now.

Rotor examined, fits cap correctly.

Possible bad dist cap ?

HELP !

My thoughts exactly...Do you still have your old condenser...?

Before you can condemn the cap you need to get a spark (power) from the coil wire to the center of the cap. As in previous post condenser or coil. With power to the dist. and points closed do you get a spark across the points if manually opened? Did you verify the dist. shaft is turning and drive gear pin is not sheared? Also check to be sure the point arm is on the correct side of the insulator and not shorted out. If you remove the wire from the coil to the dist with the power on shorting the wire to ground should also produce a spark.