VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 Where's my spark ?

Hey Guys,

My '32 Confederate ran perfect when put away last night. Of course today, she won't fire. Plenty of cranking power with a new battery, but can't see a spark when holding a plug against the block, nor when holding the distributor end of the coil against the block while opening the points with a screw driver (w/ignition switch on).

I'm getting 4.1 volts between the + and - terminals on the coil with the switch on. I get 4.7 volts when my meter probes are on the + terminal of the coil and the other connected to the points.

I don't know what these numbers mean. I would suspect they should be in the 6 volt range. I am afraid to go replacing components before I can isolate the problem. I do have new spare tune-up parts (points, condenser, rotor, plug wires,cap) if needed, except for a new 6v coil.

Again, it ran fine yesterday. I didn't have time to mess anything up !

Any guidance is much appreciated. Pretty frustrated right now. Thanks .

The terminal stud coming into the distributor is meant to be isolated from the distributor body. If the spring arm for the points is shorted to the distributor body the ignition points will not work.
If you get your multimeter there should be no continuity between the metal spring and the body with the points in the open position.

Just checked. There is NO continuity between the terminal stud and the dist body with the points open even though its looks a little ratty in there, but apparently one is isolated from the other. There IS continuity with the points closed.

If the points are closed you will get low voltage at the coil and the points. You should get 6.6+ volts at the coil and points if they are open. If you get lower voltage check the connections between positive battery post to the distributor and the ignition switch. Also check the voltage at the battery post. If you have 6+ volts, check to see if the condenser case is grounded. Check the condition of the point contacts. Clean them if there is any doubt. If all that is okay then replace the condenser. If that doesn't solve your problem come back for further instructions. 95+% of the time the problem is points or condenser or bad ignition switch or poor connection.

Okay. I'm getting 6.57 v between the + terminal of the coil with the other probe grounded to the engine, with the points open.
The condenser looks firmly attached, screwed directly to the side of the distributor.

The points have some pitting, I cleaned them off some.

I'll replace the condenser in the AM. Maybe the points as well.

Not to complicate matters, but I noticed and replaced a blown 20 amp in-fuse in the wire coming from the starter to the ignition switch. I thought that was my problem, but maybe it is part of a larger wiring issue. She still wouldn't spark. I'll crawl under the dash tomorrow, poke around, and advise.
Thank you !

Anybody know why there's a wad of paper wedged in between the breaker arm spring and where it mates up against the inside of the distributor ? Couldn't sleep thinking about it, so I'm replacing the points, condenser tonight.

Don't know whether to stick in that paper back in….I think it was a precaution by former owner to insure the spring arm doesn't ground out on the inside of the distributor. The original rubber grommet that slides on the stud has seen better days and may not be able to do its job insulating the stud from the distributor wall ??
Thoughts ?

You need that paper or some sort of insulating material to prevent a short to ground through the distributor housing. I used a thin piece of plastic. I also went to a small hardware store to find rubber grommets to isolate the stud from the distributor housing. Mine works great.

That paper is to insulate the point spring arm and needs to be there. Or at least some type of insulator. I think that wad of paper has seen better days.

Thanks guys. It seems like an odd arrangement. But that's great to know. I'll get some insulating material in there tomorrow.
The last time I changed any points was around 1972. Rebuilt a '68 VW engine on the kitchen table. I don't think the wife wouldn't allow that today…...

Sounds like you need to purchase a reprint of the 1929-32 Chevrolet parts book from the Filling Station. The parts book has all of the parts illustrated and laid out for connecting the electrolock to the distributor, including the metal terminal cup (which you appear to be missing) and the insulator strip that goes between the spring arm on the points and the side of the distributor housing.

Thanks Chip,
I couldn't access this site yesterday, must have been down?
I can't find a compete diagram in my '32 Master Parts List, did see Electrolock cable grommet listed though. I'll keep looking.

GOOD NEWS though. She has SPARK ! After changing out the points and condenser, she fired up nice. BUT I had a battle royal insulating the distributor from that heavy Electrolock cable.

Replaced the rubber grommet, added pieces of vinyl pool inning material all around the point swing arm, still it took a while. I'll need to go back in , get all the parts, make it more secure I guess.

What's the purpose of the metal terminal cup you mentioned ? I figured there must have been an insulator strip manufactured for this affair.

I also don't find a complete diagram of the electrolock. There is one but is missing several parts. There have been articles in the G&D that have illustrations.

Originally the electrolock assembly was installed on the production line in two major parts. The stud lock washer, flat washer, insulators, cup, condenser wire, rectangular contact and nut were installed in the distributor. The end of the cable had the spring, special washer, insulator and brass nut. On the assembly line the two parts were pushed together after the body was mated to the chassis.

Yes, the site was down for yesterday and it has been down a couple of times in the last few days.

The layout of the electrolock parts that go on the end of the electrolock next to the distributor are on page 105 of the August 1st edition of the Chevrolet parts book. There is also an index at the back of the parts book that will direct you to various areas of the parts book as well.

The terminal cup that goes on the end of the electrolock is to encapsulate some of the small parts that are on the terminal stud and also to keep the parts from being exposed. The terminal cup, terminal stud, insulators and etc. were originally installed on the distributor and the electrolock assembly was then snapped onto distributor body on the assembly line.

Great,
I was looking at the diagram on page 111 of the Aug. '32 book where the electrolock parts are listed. Good to know to also look at the distributor parts pages as well. It does show the cup and other parts installed on a distributor.

The metal terminal cup is called a ferrule. It's purpose is to cover the connection of the condenser at the outside of the distributor and grounds the large outer elecrolock cable to the distributor body . The grounding is a feature of the original electrolock to prevent vehicle theft without the key for the car.

The ferrule also stops things being dropped on the connection of the condenser and shorting out the points while driving , and causing a roadside breakdown.

The Chevrolet parts book lists the terminal cup as a "terminal cup" and not a ferrule. Therefore, "terminal cup" would be the correct terminology.

Also, the electrolock will work without the terminal cup so the terminal cup is not the main grounding feature.

yes , just found it on page 108 of the 29 to 32 parts book .
The standard Auto electricians manual calls it a ferrulle, which was the first diagram I grabbed.

I have emailed Hardaground the diagram of parts from the Standard Auto electricians Manual ,as he has provided me with his email address.

Now the fun question. Where would one ever find these parts ? And 2, are they really needed if a sturdy and insulated connection is cobbled together ? I'm all for keeping everything original, but …I don't want to get too sidetracked.

I see an Electrolock Repair manual in the FV catalog for '37 to '39.
Meanwhile, I was hoping to take her out on the roads a little before we get any snow. Had her 2 weeks now
Thanks

I would cobble for now, replace with correct parts later. Especially with only 2 weeks before the snow.

But, be prepared for the possibility of a cobble breakdown.

Cheers, Dean

Don't see that anyone has mentioned the info in member services.
Goto;
Member services,vehicle tech. info,resource center,electrolock 1929-1932,electrolock assembly.
Great pictures showing correct order of assembly.
Back a few months ago there was a thread on making a insulator out of plastic pop bottles or the top of a rattle can spray paint can. I did this and it works great.
Good luck.
ThreeWindow

Thanks ThreeWindow,

Man, I need a to take a deep breath after studying those pictures. I think I'd prefer someone steal my car than try to replicate in detail that original system.

I'll try to pull up the "bottle top" method thread. If you have a chance, I'd love to see a photo or even hear a little more how you resolved the issue.

Send Chipper a PM. He fixed my electro lock and supplied all the missing pieces I needed. I actually installed mine today and will be starting up my motor for the first time tonight since I bought this car. I used the diagram and instructions for installation and I got spark on my second try. I put the flat washer behind the eye from the condenser with the eye up against the insulator inside the do-hickey (can't remember the name but referred sometimes as the ferrule)and it grounded. I took it apart and put the eye from the condenser between the lock washer and flat washer and, Tah Dah, spark!

Sounds like the way to go. Maybe Chevy should have made the distributor out of rubber !

An original terminal cup will fit onto an aftermarket electrolock , but it was slightly tighter on the aftermarket one compared to an original electrolock cable end.