VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Electrical - 6 volt Did I burn the cutout? - 34 Master

Yep.......now we know!

I guess it would have been cheaper if I would have sent you the new generator I have, even with the high cost of shipping to Canada.

Hi Gene, at this rate you are likely correct. The one I bought was supposed to have been bench tested too. However I'm not about to blame them as I may have damaged it doing my own series of "tests."

I will jump in here for what its worth. Similar problem with my 1927 older but still the basic's. You have to pull the generator and have it bench checked. Second through away that stock cutout and put in a Diode, you can buy them for a 6 volt, I just gutted my stock cutoff and converted it to a Diode, looks stock that way. When I did this on mine my amp gauge reads 12 amps at cruising speeds, almost 1 amp at idle and with the head lights on 4 amps. Those old generators if hooked up wrong will burn a field fast. Oh I also put in a new coil, my old one check out weak.

Check out his previous postings in this forum....he has already converted to a diode.

The output of the generator is determined by the setting of the third brush. The diode conversion should not change the output of the generator.

Whenever I have a generator tested I always send the cutout/regulator with it that way both units can be tested fully.
Tony

Did that and requested same.

We did....and we didn't. The rebuilder says both generators charge fine, one a bit more than the other (likely the position of the 3rd brush). Buckeye's diode and Gene's relay both work fine.

He had a bunch of questions as to why I thought they didn't charge. I described our tests. He said I should have grounded the other terminal too, I would have got my voltage. He said what I did is prove the problem is somewhere else in the circuit. I described my test with the second ammeter and how it behaved like the one in the car. He said , the fact that they behave the same would indicate that they're good and he'd put his money on the resistor being burnt.

This resistor is attached on the back of the headlight switch. It controls the amount of generator charge and allows the driver to regulate the amount by pulling out the light switch 1/2 notch to get the max. amount of amps. This feature was on 1934-1937 Masters....just to set the record stratight and make all aware of its presence.

And it looks good, at least the front does. And my neighbour had checked it the other day. Which leaves the gauge......?

Okay, wait a minute. After getting your generators tested a few days ago, on a previous post you said:


Now you are saying:



So, which is it...the generators don't work or they do work?

One guy tells me they do and one guy tells me they don't. I tend to believe the one who tells me they do. He was the one who went over my rebuild job and rated it OK. It worked until that shorted cutout relay episode.

The one who told me they didn't is young and works at a heavy equipment repair shop. Someone told me they had the rig to test generators and starters. The other guy is probably older than me and has a machine that looks as if it was made for these old units and he works in a starter/generator/alternator rebuilding shop.

Okay, this is getting more confusing each day.

Can you be more specific as to what is working and what isn't working so that we will understand the complete situation with your two generators and why they are not charging?

[quote=Junkyard Dog]Okay, this is getting more confusing each day.

Can you be more specific as to what is working and what isn't working so that we will understand the complete situation with your two generators and why they are not charging?



Actually it is borderline ridiculous. I have two shops telling me the opposite. Obviously one of them is correct. What I am saying in the post above is that I tend to believe the guy who does nothing but that(generators & starters).

When I bought the second generator, I was hoping to eliminate the generator as the problem. If both charge on the rebuilder's test bench and don't when I put them in the car, then the problem is somewhere else, and looking at the wiring disgram, I can only see two things: that resistor or the gauge. I asked a while back, can I bypass the gauge and check whether the generator is charging ? I figure that would be the voltage test, correct?

As mentioned many posts back, with the car running, attach one end of a jumper wire from the "field" terminal on the outside of the generator and the other end of the jumper wire to the generator case. This will full field the generator. At that time, with your multi-meter, take a voltage reading on the generator of the generator input and output. That should tell you if the generator is charging.

You can test the resistance unit on the back of the light switch with an ohm meter to see if the resistance unit is good or bad.

It is to the point now that you really need to get someone that knows charging systems over to your house to check out your problem, or you can drive your car to their shop and have them check it out for you.

Picked up the generators at Bartlett's. All OK, including diodes and cutouts. Doesn't say much for the local guy I went to first. Bartlett's tested them on this:



Reinstalled one. Using the new and improved voltage instructions above I got over 7 volts.

Checked the ammeter, +/- 12 amps. However, that is with the jumper still in place. Without the jumper... same as before.
Tried an after market ammeter - same thing.

So there is only the resistance left and/or the wiring itself. The face of the resistance that is visible is good. I'll have to remove it to look at the backside. How many ohms am I looking for here?

Checked the battery this morning, 6.22 volts. Went for a 3-4 mile ride and checked it again , 6.18. So I guess the current is not making it to the battery.

As far as a knowledgeable guy to come and look at it, I'm still looking. Would the electrical wizard at any of the dealerships understand a 80 year old system? Of the few independents left, one is into old cars (mostly Barracudas). He is retiring soon due to age, tiredness and the lease on his shop being up. He is booked tight until the very last minute. Perhaps later I might be able to coax him into having a look.

Full fielded, your generator should be putting out anywhere between 7.5 volts and 8.5 volts.

Sure looks like you have a problem elsewhere in your system. Is the circuit from the generator to ammeter okay? I assume that the resister on the back of the light switch is part of that circuit at least when the switch is in the first detente position. Then the wire from ammeter to positive post on the battery? Is the jumper around the resister on the light switch? What happens if you connect the generator to the ammeter and then the other terminal on the ammeter to battery? Does the battery get charged and hold? Isolating or bypassing parts of the circuit may help solve the problem.

Check for a possible short in the circuit also.

No. It is the jumper from the field to the casing used in the voltage test.

I am by far an expert at this but--- drain the battery below 5 volts, and see if it starts charging. With out reading 5 pages in this string when it is running are you getting a reading at driving speed of 6 to 10 amp on the gauge in the car, if not you may have a short in the gauge, does the battery drain while the car sits for a couple days? there is not that much to go wrong, you generator works, your pulling amps at that point, your concern seems to limit it to the gauge, coil, battery, I assume you have had the battery checked to see if it can hold a charge, how is the battery grounded.

I still think the resistor on the back of the light switch is the problem.....or thee way the swtich/resistor is wired.

Pat has replaced the amp meter and the problem still exists.

Along with Gene, I think that the next thing to check would be the resistance unit on the back of the light switch.

Okay, I guess I need a little basic learning here. What your saying is that the amp gauge is not the feed to the resistance unit on the back of the light switch and so its feeds directly from the generator? So on or off working or not it would not allow the feed to go through the amp gauge? I guess what I am asking does the generator feed to the resistance unit and then the amp gauge? I am thinking that if everything checks out and every thing is hooked up tight that he maybe looking at a broken wire, or one that has heated up and restricts the flow.

Wire goes fro battery to starter switch the from starter switch to ammeter.to the ign. switc. from the ign.switch to the light switc. Anothe wire from the generator to the resistor. which is wired into the light switch.
The resistor puts a light load on the generator causing to charge at a higher rate. When the head lights are not on and the switch knob is fully off the resistor is out of the circuit. To increase the charging rate , like f the battery is low, the switch is pulled out 1/2 notch (between off and parking lamps)....When the parking or head lights are on the resistor is "working" so as to increase the carging when the lights are on. If the resistor is bad the generator will charge as normal when lights are not on and knob is fully off. When called into service in the other positions the gen. will not charge. The resistor must be wired into the light switch also. The wire from the ammeter and the wire to the cut-out go to the same terminal on the back of the light switch. That would be to the end of the fuse that is closest to the the outer side of the light switch.