VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1949-1954 Judging Question

Chef, Good idea but each car would be a hour argument - I can see it now

I grew up with three older sisters, it comes natural to me I guess? Just push a cosmetic button about looks and the whole household comes unglued!

I have never had my car judged.

Here's my thoughts.

1. I understand, thanks to the comments on this thread, as to how the vehicle is judged.

2. I have read, many times, that the judges are not "qualified" for the specific year or era that they are judging. I have no first hand knowledge of that, just saying what I have read, through VCCA.

3. If the judge is NOT qualified for the specific year or era, how is that judge to know if a specific accessory is period correct or year correct for the vehicle or not ?

It would seem to me, correct me if I'm wrong here, that a vehicle with a "load" of accessories on it would stand a greater chance of losing more points, IF those accessories turn out to be incorrect for that specific car .... if the individual judging the car is, in fact, very qualified for that specific vehicle.

I understand there is so much emphasis on the judging process, by the owners, but if there may be flaws in the overall judging process, why place such emphasis on the results of the judging? Or maybe I'm missing a big piece of the puzzle here.

This has always been an area of confusion for me, in this VCCA overall process.

Growing up in the 40's and 50's ..... 1940's and 1950's that is, and being so attracted to anything with 4 wheels, I do not ever recall seeing the cars from back then, loaded with accessories. I probable can count on less than 10 fingers, all the cars I ever saw with Continental kits, as well.

Maybe I just grew up in an area (Cleveland) where accessories and such were not affordable, just don't know.

JD,

Chevrolet put out accessories to both beautify the car and to add features such as trunk guards, bumper and grill guards, etc. They even had displays in the showroom sometimes. There was a promotional effort to sell the stuff. brochures, etc. I don't think anyone can argue about that.

So... If all cars start out at 1000 points but points can be taken off for correct accessories not being in pristine condition then it seems to me that points should be added if they are found to be in pristine condition. Seems only reasonable and fair to me.

The current system can penalize an owner for having a correct accessory that is not in pristine condition. That is a one-way street. It would tend to encourage owners to remove all accessories, including trim rings and fender skirts 49-52. Otherwise there is the potential of losing points to the "plain jane." Of course the radio antenna and the spare tire port would have to be left in place because you would just have a hole otherwise.

I still maintain that if points can be taken away because of an accessory's condition then points should be added if the accessory is found to be in good condition. Seems logical and fair to me.

Charlie

BTW: I never intended to convey the notion that it would be a good thing to slap on a piece of trash accessory as Steve6 inferred.

You must remember the car is not being judged on beauty but on its condition compared to when it was new.

Okay, let's go through this one more time! Accessories are parts, therefore they are judged the same as other parts on the car. If points were added for accessories in good condition then points should also be added for other parts that are in good condition as well. You can't have one without the other. In all car club judging systems, the owners that add accessories to their cars are at risk for extra point deductions if the accessories are defective, incorrect or they are not in excellent condition. If the accessories are up to snuff then no points will be deducted. That's the way it works and that is the only way the judging system will work to be fair to everyone.

Going into judging the owner should know the rules and make his own decision as to how he wants to present his/her vehicle. If the owner is restoring for awards they should first start with the judging manual.

If there is something you think might be questioned I would show the documentation to the team captain when they start judging the vehicle.

Merriam-Webster:

Accessory -

b : an object or device not essential in itself but adding to the beauty, convenience, or effectiveness of something else <auto accessories> <clothing accessories>

Thus, by definition an accessory is not a part. Accordingly, my logic is intact despite all the attacks on it.

Nonetheless, I know when I'm beat; albeit by vacuous arguments that have no legs.

I still say that it's a shame to have to strip a car of its accessories merely out of fear that judges may not be knowledgeable (in the accessory) for a particular year or because an item of (correct accessory) may not be of high enough concurs show quality to prevent a deduction in points. I'm done for now. Mercy!

The club needs to rethink this issue.

Charlie

Hey Charlie: Your logic (if that is what you want to call it) is not intact based on Chevrolet references and sources. Chevrolet accessories are listed as "parts" in the Chevrolet parts books and other Chevrolet literature. And, all accessories have part numbers as well.

As Gene said earlier, judging is not based on "beauty" so possibly all accessories should actually be ignored during the judging process since (by your definition) they are not parts, but non-purpose beauty items.

The only vacuous argument that has no legs at this point is probably your logic. However, I would suggest that you contact the judging committee and present them with your point of view. You never know.....after careful consideration they might even come up with a different vacuous argument of their own. Double Mercy!!

Guys, watch out for comments that target another person, individual or VCCA member. Remain on topic. This thread is about JUDGING -- not someone else's convoluted or screwy idea of what SHOULD be judged.


(Just teasing you, Charlie.)

Personally I have some "strong" opinions about judging now after evaluating some actions over the past couple of years, but I've tried to keep them to myself since public dissertation provides no productive actions.

So, when I decide to finally "vent", I'm going to submit a MOTION to the club. That single action will cause more to occur than 15 pages of comments posted on the Chat site.

Just a suggestion for the rest of you.

Motions:
Log in to MEMBERS area.
Click on Resource Center
Click on "National - Meet approval, Bylaws, Graphics"
Click on "Motion for Policy Changes"

Fill out the form and send it to your Area Director along with a copy to the By-Laws and Policy Chairman (http://vcca.org/board.htm).

That's the OFFICIAL way to get changes made.

Bill

Yes, Sir! Three bags full. Even though I'm right, I apologize to all concerned for, well... being right, I guess. Do too! (It gets lonely at the top. Does too!)

A part completes a car whereas an accessory does not. It is simply that: an accessory. Visualize a broach on a woman's outfit. The skirt and blouse make up the parts of the outfit. The broach merely complements it. It is an accessory. Same for accessories for a car. I don't care if they have a parts number or not. That's merely an accounting thing. Nothing more.

I'll include my superior thinking in my motion to the club. Thank you stepping in to save me from further abuse and for your forbearance and suggestion. You're my hero! (key in music and barf bags)

Charlie

BTW: I won't hold my breath 'til we see an apology come out of upper left hand corner of the map. Mercy!

Personally I will always enter my car in DPC (even if it was a 1000 pt.) and never judge. I want to relax and enjoy the day!!!

'Been quietly watching this one successfully til now. Now, what is "DPC"?

Drivers Participation Class. Basically a participation award for showing up and putting the vehicle on the Judging field. The vehicle must appear generally stock however some modifications are acceptable.

The last time I went to a Judged Meet I entered our car as Didplay Only. I could just park it and enjoy myself. The only thing they checked was to be sure I had a Fire Extinguisher. No pressure/more fun. I plan to do the same this summer.

I fall right in with Master Six and Back Roads. I understand and fully respect the other approach but it is not for me. I'm just too laid back to get involved plus, I've always driven my ol' cars whether they are double sharp or not.

In over 50 years of cars and shows, the only trophy I ever received was for a very sharp '47 Ford Convertible at a big AACA meet. Funny thing was, the '47 had a "Do not judge" sign on the windshild the whole time.

No offence. "To each his own".

I'm curious as to what modifications are allowed in that classification.

You can call the accessories anything you choose, but they are always a "part".

That being said, it all comes down to this.

Let's say you choose to have your car judged. But the front bumper is not pristine and it's off a '49 Plymouth, so points are deducted.

If points are deducted for a non pristine, non factory front bumper, why should points NOT be deducted for an accessory that is not up to snuff in appearance or incorrect to the car? Same scenario.

By choosing to add the accessory, the owner is rolling the dice that the accessory part he installed is pristine and will not draw a deduction in points.

Whether the "part" is standard equipment to the car ..... or an accessory "part" to the car, same rule has to apply to either case. Parts are parts.

Judging begins at 1000 points, then goes down for whatever infractions.

Judging does NOT begin at 1000 and go up if the front bumper is especially shiney or the accessory sun visor is polished to perfection.