VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc Adjusting tappets from scratch, how do I do it?

Hi there,
Today I tried to adjust the tappets from scratch.
I managed to get No 1 at tdc and at the ball bearing on the flywheel.
After that I became lost.
Using the solenoid button on the starter motor I kept going past the ball bearing, so I removed the fan blade and managed to get a Stilton wrench on the pulley to wind the motor back and position it on the ball bearing.Phew...

so to adjust the next in firing order , number 5 is next.
Its very difficult to turn the motor one full revolution . exactly to then set number 5.
Is there an easier way to do it.

Desperate Peter..

I have always used the starter motor to "bump" the engine over and I never had a problem.

Peter,
I'll take a stab at it. Everybody has their own method or technique. Here's a draft that I've got in work for my web site.

SETTING YOUR VALVE CLEARANCE WITH A FEELER GAUGE
To set them cold, I remove the spark plugs, and turn the engine over (using the fan blade or hand crank) to the #1 cylinder firing position. This allows you to set one half of the valves.

Note: I set them to about 2 thousands above the high number.

Then I turn the engine over to the #6 firing position, and set the other half the same way. Now put the plugs back in and start the engine.

Let it run for about 1/2 hour to thoroughly warm up, and, to make sure that the valve gear and oiling system are working ok. Usually you can do this with the valve cover off - at low revolutions it won't sling oil all over the place.

Then shut it down and pull the plugs again. Turn it over with the fan to the number 1 and number 6 firing positions and set all the valves to the correct tolerance. Alternatively you can leave the plugs in and use the starter to turn the engine since, by now, you should have the technique down. Of course, once you get your "sea legs" then you can adjust the valves WHILE THE ENGINE IS RUNNING. That's my preferred way.

If you set them to the high end of the tolerance, this lessens the chance of burning valves. Set up loose like this, it might tap a bit at idle.

I just realized that I need to describe how to find No 1 and No 6 firing positions.... stand by.

Peter
I generally use a different method to Bill's but there is nothing wrong with Bills either, personal preferance.
Turn the engine by fan or crank handle until #6 valves are changing from exhaust to inlet and adjust #1 valves then turn engine until #2 changes and adjust #5 turn to #4 change adjust #3 turn to #1 adjust #6 turn to #5 adjust #2 turn to #3 adjust #4.
It means turning the engine 2 full turns overall (Bill's idea is 1 turn).
Tony

Peter,

This method is similar (if not the same) as Bill's listed above:

1. Set the motor to TDC on #1 cylinder (the following valves should be fully closed).

Set the lash on:
1 Exhaust
1 Intake
2 Intake
3 Exhaust
4 Intake
5 Exhaust

2. Then, rotate the crankshaft one full revolution.

#6 cylinder should be at TDC (the following valves should be fully closed).

Set lash on:
6 Exhaust
6 Intake
5 Intake
4 Exhaust
3 Intake
2 Exhaust

Happy Motoring,

Dan

A good resource to bookmark and/or print out & keep in the garage.

hi there all, thank you for your help.
Dan R , yours answers the bit that Bill Barker left off, and now I understand the method to be used.
I will go and try it out and let you know the result.

cheers
Peter

Hi there,
had a go today and still not sure if it is correct?
when I get the pointer on the ball bearing and the rotor pointing to number one in the distributor, number one cylinder is at TDC....so is number 6 cylinder. If I then rotate the crankshaft making the distributor turn one revolution and coming back to number one cylinder position, 1 and 6 are at TDC and the pointer is still on the ball bearing? so how do I know which one to do, 1 or 6 according to Dan R sequence?
I am not sure if I am starting on 1 or number 6?

Peter

Number one cylinder should be on compression when the ball bearing is lined up with the pointer. If not, then go around again until the ball bearing is lined up with the pointer and number one cylinder is on compression. The rotor should also be pointing to the number one tower on the distributor cap as well.

Peter
Both #1 and #6 are at TDC at the same time but only 1 of them is on compression at a time. The engine takes 2 turns of the crank per full cycle but only 1 turn of the cam.
Align the flywheel ball and adjust the appropriate set of valves then turn the crank to align the ball for the second set.
Tony

Another easy way to assure you are at top dead center is to take the cover off of the flywheel and just hand turn it to the position mentioned in the above posts. You can even do this with the plugs in or by using a large screwdriver as a lever.

I just set my tappets after 500 miles on my new engine. I started by doing a search of our chat posts, and an internet search. I had never set tappets before or seen it done. I came up with 6 or 7 posts that discussed how to do it. I choose what way sounded easiest and seemed consistent with other posts. I choose to set them cold then to drive my car around for 35 minutes and recheck them. One of the articles warned against just idling your car for 35 minutes. They thought the engine would not get hot enough. I made all my adjustment with the car not running. I am not very coordinated and my multitasking isn't what it used to be. My 41 manual did tell me the cold tappet settings and the hot ones. I made very few changes from what the setting was for a cold engine to what it said it should be hot.

I found that the machine shop was not very accurate in their settings and that the engine ran quieter after I reset the tappets. Good luck, Mike

P.S. Because my eyesight isn't what it used to be I took a digital picture of the points as they rode on the cam. I was looking to find the position that had the points gaped completely open.

P.S. I actually followed Dan's above posted explanation. It was the easiest for me to follow.

Hi Tony
I think I know what you're asking. When #1 cylinder is on compression stroke as the piston reaches TDC (top dead center) with the timing pointer located on the flywheel ball and the distributor rotor pointing to #1 cylinder on the distributor cap, both the intake and exhaust valves will be closed on #1 cylinder or both rocker arms will be up and loose. One of the valves (I think it is the intake) on #6 cylinder will be open or the rocker arm will be down and tight on this valve. This is TDC firing position on #1 cylinder where you set your first set of valves as Dan mentioned before. Once you set these valves, then rotate engine one full turn in correct engine rotation to the timing ball again. This will be TDC firing position for #6 cylinder. Both valves should be closed, rocker arms loose and both up. #1 cylinder will then have one valve open and the rocker arm down and tight.

Also as a Best Gasket dealer and former heavy truck mechanic, I will tell you that once you have the engine at operating temperature, you need to re-torque the head bolts in the same order as torqued when cold and the same ft. lbs. This sets the head gasket and prevents blow out across the head gasket between cylinders and other places.
Hope this helps.
Bob@marxparts

Bob
You have the idea, #1 and #6 pistons travel as a pair (#2 and #5 are a pair, #3 and #4 are paired). The pairs are 120 degrees rotation apart. This places 1 of the pair on TDC compression (both valves fully closed) and the other on TDC exhaust (exhaust closing and inlet opening or "rocking").
Tony

Peter,

If you are setting the initial gaps after a rebuild, etc. then you must do it cold and carefully so as not to bend something.

If the engine is able to run, run it until it gets hot. Then, place a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator. You want to get it to about 190 (or a little higher) degrees by the gage. Remove some of the cardboard until the temperature stabilized at about 190. (As long as there is water/coolant in the engine you won't hurt it by getting it hot. Just avoid boiling the water out. That, of course, can lead to bad things.)

Set idle screw to slow idle. Take a 9/16 (I think its that size) wrench and a short slotted screw driver and a set of feeler gages. Set the valves to their proper clearance. Do the all intakes and then the exhausts or visa versa. You can tell when you have them set just right by being able to slip the filler gage in between the valve stem and the rocker with just a tiny bit of drag.

Put the valve cover back on. You're done and the valves are adjusted for a good many miles to come. Now go wash up, grab a Fosters and go sit in the shade of a billabom(sp) tree (whatever) with the satisfaction of a job well done.

Charlie

BTW: There is a tool with the screwdriver part spring loaded in the top of the 9/16 wrench. Its made exclusively for setting the valves with the engine running. Its a big help. Its rather hard to hold the screwdriver and the wrench without either slipping. After you have tightened down on the nut recheck the clearance. The screw driver slot must be held in place whilst the nut is tightened. Piece o' cake after you get used to it.

BTW2:Cold static settings will not hold true when hot. The engine needs to be hot when the final settings are made.

BTW3: Caution: Don't turn the engine by using the fan blades. There is nothing on your engine that looks better than when the fan blades are running true to each other and nothing looking worse than when they are not. Using them to turn the engine, especially when the compression is strong, will likely result in them not running true. So I recommend you don't do it.

Hi there all ,
I have read all the reply's and still have doubts about my ability to adjust my tappets from SCRATCH properly.

Bill Barker , I think that you need to put on the front of the forum, a scratchie of how to adjust tappets from scratch , as a difinative and true post of how to to it, without any bulllshit?

I tried it again today and noted the following:-
after finding TDC on number one, the pointer is pointing to the ball bearing, the rotor is pointing to number one cylinder, so all is correct for starting off from scratch.......

then rotating the crankshaft one full turn, the rotor comes back to number one and the ball bearing lines up with the pointer??? so now, one can adjust the other cylinders??

at this stage, number 6 is on compression but the rotor is not pointing to number 6 , but to number 1 on the rotor? so why is this?
surly if after rotating the crankshaft one rotation, all things being equal, the rotor should be pointing to number 6 , and not number one?

what is the correct location of the rotor after turning-the crankshaft one full rotation???

sill confused Peter

Bill Barker....we need to clarify this conclusively for all the newbies and me and others who think asking a dumb question is stupid....there is never a dumb question on this forum guys, we are all learning......all the time..

Peter

Peter
If you are on the compression stroke of #1 cyl the intake valve will have just closed & the rotor should be pointing to the #1 position on the distributer cap. The pointer should be at 0 on the flywheel. The camshaft rotates at half the speed of the crankshaft...so, when you make one full revolution of the crank, the intake on the #6 should be closing & the rotor should be facing the #6 position of the distributer & the pointer on the flywheel will be at 0 again....Joe

Peter,

Sorry, that you considered mine and all the rest, except BB's reply, as "Bullshit (BS)."

There were several posts that told you how to adjust the valves from "SCRATCH." None of them were BS. All said about the same thing as BB and would get you there.

I don't think any of us were doing anything other than trying to helpful. Maybe you need to rethink your attitude.

My post was merely to be helpful after the initial scratch settings. It was not intended as BS. I'm sorry if I stepped all over your sensibility.

You don't have to worry about getting any more advice from me.

Charlie

Charlie.
How do you get compression by turning the engine over with the fan blades when the spark plugs are out?

Can't ya just feel the Well Can't Ya ???????

JG,

Well, you can't but still you may interfere with the rotating track/plane of the fan blades by using them to rotate the engine. Especially a tight one.

Charlie

blueyAU,
Are you turning the crankshaft over 360 degrees? or watching the rotor and turning it until the distributor shaft turns 360 deg.? Since the camshaft which is geared to the distributor only turns over 1/2 the number of revolutions as the crankshaft I am thinking you are actually turning the crankshaft two revolutions so the rotor again points to the same position. Next time only turn the crankshaft until the rotor is exactly opposite the #1 plug wire position on the distributor cap. That will be the #6 position. Some of us assume that everyone understands the 2:1 ratio of the crank and cam. We all had to learn it some time in the past. So one revolution to us is the for the crankshaft not camshaft.

If my thinking is not correct then you have me stumped. Can't think of a way to get the cam and crankshafts to turn over equally.

Hi there Charlie,
May I clarify my last post.

I have found ALL posts helpful and instructive, the term (bullshit) a universally used descriptive, was certainly not intended as you interpreted its vernacular and meaning!

My apologizes to you and anyone else who thought otherwise.

I am just trying to establish a standard method of adjusting tappets from SCRATCH, which seems to be a different method to an engine that is running and only needs minor adjustments?

Peter

Hi there Chipper,
I have just been told of the following method, have you tried this way?

Once I have number one cyl. on tdc and the other notable indicators such as rotor position and timing mark line up I set that cylinder. Then just turn the engine enough to go to the next cylinder by watching the opening of the points on the cam lobe and follow the firing order 1-5-3-6-2-4.

Peter

That method will work for sure. Another is to adjust any valves you want. Rotate the engine 90-120 degrees. Readjust those valves that are loose. Rotate engine again. Readjust the loose valves. Repeat until there is no need to tighten any valves. You may loosen a few valves that are open or opening but the process will eventually take care of those.

Actually the most accurate method I have found is to set each valve to maximum vacuum with hot engine running a slow idle.

Keep in mind Chipper that Peter is wanting to do an initial setting and until that is done the engine is not runnable.