VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Electrical - 6 volt Did I burn the cutout? - 34 Master

After I finished rerouting my speedometer cable I went for a ride at highway speeds...well 50....to see how it was behaving. Along the way I noticed that the ammeter indicated full discharge. I figured that was because of my blistering pace, but it should have gone down to 3-5 amps should it not? I started it again tonight and when it is not flickering back and forth across the 0, it shows no charge. What have I done?

Sounds like the cable may be shorting out a wire somewhere.

Should I disconnect the battery before I go to bed? It's been like this for a couple of days.

YES - disconnect the battery

Ammeter going to full discharge is bad! Last year I was driving my '50 through a parking lot, and went over a speed bump. One of the vent cables moved, and came to rest on a junction block under the dash that had the turn signals going to it. The wiring started burning right there, and burned almost all of the way up the steering column before I got the car shut off (the wire was still live) and the battery disconnected! As I was driving through the lot, there was construction at a building there, and I thought I smelled something burning from the building! It was when I looked at the ammeter and realized it was at full discharge that I realized it was me!

Yes...disconnect the battery...you wouldn't want to find out what went wrong in the middle of the night...You may have inadvertently grounded another wire while installing the speedometer cable...check nearby connections with an ohm meter for a "hot" wire, that should be not be "grounded"...I might start under the hood to see if it's in contact or near contact with "hot" connections...Then again, it could be just by coincidence...happens more often than you'd think...Working on thing and it just picks that particular time to "crop" up...

Did you repolarize the generator!

Do you have the generator hooked up correctly?

If your amp gauge is flickering back and forth across zero you could have a vibrating cut-out or a weak brush spring.

I can't see what it could touch. The only open terminals along the route are the dimmer switch and the stoplight switch. Unless it touched something under the dash while it was pushed up. But it is pulled back down. Could it have blown a fuse?

Kevin's idea of a coincidence is more probable IMHO.

J.D. I did repolarize the generator after energizing the harness. Last time I touched it was to move the 3rd brush to get it to charge up to 10 amps at 25 mph. I'll check for loose stuff around the generator.

A quick inspection this morning revaled two things: the rear mounting bolt is gone. The generator is holding by the tension arm and the front bolt (maybe the cause of the vibrating cutout?). Second, the wire between the cutout and the band is tight on its post but the post moves up and down. Further verification will necessitate the removal of the generator. I suppose it will need repolarizing upon reinstall?

Sounds like the shakeout phase is in full swing. Might be a good time to do a thorough retightening, particularly on things like u-bolts and suspension parts and anything else you can get a wrench or socket on without disassembling anything.

Run a thread/string between the points on the cut out. That will free up your discharge problem. The points on the cut out get stuck in the off position some time because they do not get used much. They build up a little crud on them. Then when they do close they stick. (Shade Tree Mech.)

And, when the points are stuck closed, the generator fries because the battery voltage is going into the generator and with no place to go the solder on the armature melts.

The generator should be re-polarized every time that it is removed and reinstalled.

Thanks Terrill. I'll try that. But I do think the cutout is fried.

I reinstalled a bolt at the rear of the generator support. I removed the wire from the loose post and retightened the post. Reinstalled the wire.


When I lifted the generator to put the belt back on I saw some solder at the base of the cutout. I think the vibration of the generator hanging by one bolt caused the cutout cover to loosen and cause a short, There are some arc burns on the cover too.



I put everything back together, hooked up the battery and fired her up. Looked like everything was working fine.


Went for a spin, within one mile it was back at zero but not flickering back and forth. If it is the cutout I'd like some opinions on the following alternatives:
-Find a cutout
-Use the rebuild service offered by FS (Item # RW-396)
-Apparently there is a mister James Patterson in Oregon who does a hidden regulator which works well.
-Buy this item; http://www.ebay.com/sch/6000/i.html...e_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_rdc=1

At idle, increase the speed of your engine and see if the cut-out points close.

Try a search on this site as I believe there was a posting about converting the cut-out. I would not use your old relay as I think that once it overheats enough to melt the solder it should be replaced. I do not have any experience with the electronic controlled relay but from what I have read I think that's the way to go.

Yep, converting your existing cut-out to solid state is probably the way to go. That way it will be trouble free. But.....find out if your cut-out is definitely causing the problem first.

[quote=Pat S]
Kevin's idea of a coincidence is more probable IMHO.
/quote] Happens more often than you might imagine...

Removed the cutout because I can't see anything down there. Would need the bifocals on top of the glasses. It looks like the points got real hot. Flattened them a bit with emery cloth then reinstalled. It charges again. Tried to get them to close by increasing the idle speed. They don't. Went for another 2-3 mile spin, up to 40 mph, no reduction to 5 amps at that speed. I guess it is toast. As for repolarizing, how is it done again?

I am confused here. If the points don't close then the generator can't charge. So, how are you getting the generator to charge if the points don't close? Keep in mind that the cut-out is just an "off-on" switch and with the points open the "switch" is off and the generator cannot charge.

By the looks of the photos, you definitely need either another cut-out or to convert your cut-out to solid state.

To polarize the generator, with the key off and all of the wires attached, use a jumper wire and attach one end to one of the terminals on the cut-out and then touch the other end of the jumper wire to the other terminal on the cut-out. You should get a spark and then the generator is polarized.

In answer to your first post the answer is Y-E-S. Trying to make that cut out work is more than a waste of time- it's a threat to all the work you have put into your project. Throw it into the scrap pile and be thankful you did not have a real disaster. This post may seem harsh, but if it keeps you from trying to use that cut out then it will have served it's purpose.

Absolutely, do not use the cut-out but do not throw it in the scrap bin. If you elect to go to a solid state conversion, you will need the cut-out as a core so that it can be converted to a solid state unit.

Pat, sent you a PM regarding a Diode for your cutout.
Richard

What I meant is that I didn't see them move when I gave it a bit of throttle. For all I care they must have already been closed. If they were to close upon speeding up the engine then they must be open at idle. Now I'm the one who is confused.

I do know that if I push down on them with everything off I get a yellowish spark at the points.

I normally take an increase in engine speed to close the points of the cut-out. It takes the power generated by the generator to activate the electromagnet that pulls the points together. Once the points are pulled together then they will stay until the engine is shut off (at least that is what is supposed to happen). Rarely the points will stay closed and drain the battery by trying to motor the generator.

Seems that your cutout may be working despite being half fried.

The advantage to replacing the points and electromagnet with a diode is no mechanical parts to fail. Disadvantage is you have to provide a heat sink to dissipate the heat and if the diode fails there is not fixing it at the side of the road.

A spare working cut-out that either has been converted to solid state or that still has the electro-magnet and points can be carried in the vehicle. It only takes a couple of minutes to changeout the cut-out with a spare unit. Some dudes even carry a complete, working spare generator in their cars as well.