Reproduction Parts for 1916-1964 Chevrolet Passenger Cars & 1918-1987 Chevrolet & GMC Trucks


Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#285315 08/01/13 08:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 277
ron1967 Offline OP
Backyard Mechanic
OP Offline
Backyard Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 277
I've been working on my engine for quite some time, cranking it over to ck. timing, and i realized that unlike modern engines, unless the engine is running at idle at best, there is no oil going to the bearings, pistons and piston pins without the crank going fast enough to splash oil in their direction.
am i correct?
even running the oil pump with a drill won't do anything but fill the oil pan gutters and go no further if the crank isn't moving fast enough.

comments. worried that i might do damage to the bearings, i dropped the pan and lubricated as much as i could get to with valvoline racing oil and put the pan back on. i got the engine running a few days later so all is well and lube-ing

Filling Station - Chevrolet & GMC Reproduction Parts


Filling Station


Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 30,700
Likes: 141
ChatMaster - 25,000
Offline
ChatMaster - 25,000
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 30,700
Likes: 141
The oil will pump up the the bearing in a few seconds. There is always oil in the rod troughs to throw around in the engine. Running it at a fast idle will get the oil going in a hurry unless your using a heavy oil Thats why 10W-30 is a good bet. It is like #10 on the start-up and will be circulating in seconds.


Gene Schneider
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 277
ron1967 Offline OP
Backyard Mechanic
OP Offline
Backyard Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 277
what i was trying to explain and warn people about was if i keep cranking the engine and i cant get it started, then the crank and rod bearings never get oil because the oil never gets splashed hard enough to splash up to the cylinder walls, rod bearings and crank bearings so eventually im running them dry
unlike modern engines that have oil go through internal oil passages in the crank that will lube the bearings if the oil pump is turning, even if the engine doesnt start and splash the oil around in the crank case.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,379
Likes: 1
Technical Advisor
ChatMaster - 10,000
Offline
Technical Advisor
ChatMaster - 10,000
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,379
Likes: 1



We must assume the engine builder was smart enough to use assembly lube in excess. All bearings, the cam, and cylinder walls should have assembly lube used liberally.


Agrin devil


RAY


Chevradioman
http://www.vccacolumbiariverregion.org/



1925 Superior K Roadster
1928 Convertible, Sport, Cabriolet
1933 Eagle, Coupe
1941 Master Deluxe 5-Passenger Coupe
1950 Styleline Deluxe 4-Door Sedan
1950 Styleline Deluxe Convertible
2002 Pontiac, Montana, Passenger Van
2014 Impala, 4-Door Sedan, White Diamond, LTZ
2017 Silverado, Double Cab, Z71, 4X4, White, Standard Bed, LTZ

If you need a shoulder to cry on, pull off to the side of the road.
Death is the number 1 killer in the world.


Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 19,757
Likes: 62
ChatMaster - 15,000
Online Happy
ChatMaster - 15,000
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 19,757
Likes: 62
Ron,
I believe that most people don't realize that it takes a very long time for oil to leave a space between metal parts. The surface tension tries to keep the oil molecules next to each other. That is despite the forces trying to squeeze them out. It also keeps a thin oil film on the surface of metal like the cylinder walls. The thickness is dependent on the viscosity which is temperature related.

What the above actually means is that lubrication remains between the parts despite movement even though more lubricant is not added. The fact is that an engine can run at slow speeds for extended times with no or little damage and no oil flow. Many of us have seen it demonstrated at swap meets, county fairs, etc.

So yes providing oil FLOW to engine parts is nice but not critical in the early stages of engine operation.


How Sweet the roar of a Chevy four!
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 179
DFC Offline
Shade Tree Mechanic
Offline
Shade Tree Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 179
How about a 'real life' experience. Year before last we had our '27 Coach on the Louisiana 4 cyl tour. Third day out 85 degree weather, I chanced to look down to see Zero oil pressure. Stopped ASAP, opened the hood to find no oil showing on dipstick. The old oil filter had split open.Later, after bypassing the filter it took 4 quarts to reach dipstick full( oh s---). I figured we might as well finish the tour,engine ran fine next two days.
Got home and dropped the pan. Pulled the center main and rod caps on each side expecting to see burned journals or damaged babbit. Nope. Everything looked fine,with proper clearance!
Since then, have put another 200 miles on it, runs great with no funny noises. What,me worry? I drive Chevys!!!
Dan

DFC #285541 08/04/13 11:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 29,848
Tech Advisor
ChatMaster - 25,000
Offline
Tech Advisor
ChatMaster - 25,000
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 29,848
Great story!

laugh wink beer2


The Mangy Old Mutt

"If It's Not Junk.....It's Not Treasure!"
DFC #285543 08/04/13 12:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 19,757
Likes: 62
ChatMaster - 15,000
Online Happy
ChatMaster - 15,000
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 19,757
Likes: 62
Dan,
I am really glad you posted your story. It illustrates that even zero oil pressure for a short period doesn't mean destruction. Maybe it will help comfort new "old" Chevy owners that their miniscule oil pressure does not predict impending disaster.

Over decades the automotive supplier industry have convinced us that we need to use their "super" product or our engines will be instantly destroyed. Oil pressure and flow are the critical factors in their claims. How many claims can we remember that increased pressure means longer engine life?


How Sweet the roar of a Chevy four!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,379
Likes: 1
Technical Advisor
ChatMaster - 10,000
Offline
Technical Advisor
ChatMaster - 10,000
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,379
Likes: 1



After reading the above postings you can understand how I can run my engines with the oil pan off to locate strange noises. The engine is run with the pan on and full of oil. The oil is drained and the pan removed. The engine is started without applying any throttle. You can run the engine for up to a minute at idle which gives you sufficient time to check for any problems.


Agrin devil


RAY


Chevradioman
http://www.vccacolumbiariverregion.org/



1925 Superior K Roadster
1928 Convertible, Sport, Cabriolet
1933 Eagle, Coupe
1941 Master Deluxe 5-Passenger Coupe
1950 Styleline Deluxe 4-Door Sedan
1950 Styleline Deluxe Convertible
2002 Pontiac, Montana, Passenger Van
2014 Impala, 4-Door Sedan, White Diamond, LTZ
2017 Silverado, Double Cab, Z71, 4X4, White, Standard Bed, LTZ

If you need a shoulder to cry on, pull off to the side of the road.
Death is the number 1 killer in the world.


Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 79
Shade Tree Mechanic
Offline
Shade Tree Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 79
I have run my engine without a sump to trace a noise as well.
Don't think I did any damage as it still works great.




Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 277
ron1967 Offline OP
Backyard Mechanic
OP Offline
Backyard Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 277
good info, i had no idea how long the engine was not run before i purchsed it and how long the werer trying to start it before i purchased it. i dropped the pan wgen i purchased it and lube'ed it then manually.

i now have it running and swapped out the oil pump and now have about 4-6 psi at idle.

thanks again

ron1967


Link Copied to Clipboard
Support The VCCA!

Enjoy the forum? Become a VCCA member! The World's Best Chevrolet and GMC Club!


Member Photos
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
by DreamChevy, February 17
My 1933 Chevy 2 Dr. Sedan
My 1933 Chevy 2 Dr. Sedan
by 1939Chevy1, November 24
Back on the road 79 years later
2 1927 Chevrolet Trucks
2 1927 Chevrolet Trucks
by 1927TRUCKS, June 7
Who's Online Now
2 members (modiol, 1 invisible), 63 guests, and 7 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
NeilA, Jayhicks, Tomvanhouten, Dads29Chevy, Tractorman
18,308 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
SabrinaKarras, Speedy1
Forum Statistics
Forums58
Topics59,072
Posts429,077
Members18,308
Most Online1,133
Jan 22nd, 2020
 

Notice: Any comments posted herein do not necessarily reflect the official position of the VCCA.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5