VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1949-1954 235 Distributor Question

Had a friend bring me his beautifully restored 1949 pickup with a '57 235 engine with hydraulic lifters, asking if I could get it to run better. Said he had two problems, 1. It overheats badly. 2. It just doesn't run good.

I had him start it, valves clattered like a worn out machine gun. Valves were obviously way out of adjustment, so I began to adjust them (And yes, I do know how to do it) It was immediately obvious something was wrong. I could feel the push rod touch the spring, but virtually no resistance other than the spring inside the lifter, no oil cushion. Went ahead and adjusted all 12 lifters, none of them were even close and figured I had made a giant step to resolving his problem.

Started the engine, way out of time, so adjusted it by ear for the time being until I got the rest of the problems in line so it would idle well enough to set the timing. Valve clatter remained loud and didn't resolve itself. Saw no oil at the rockers. Asked him about the oil pressure, said he thought the gauge was bad because it never did have oil pressure after he put the engine in! Took a look and the distributor was sitting way too high, obviously not engaging the oil pump. Took my handy tool I always use to pre prime the engine oil system by turning the oil pump with a drill motor. Immediately had oil pressure at the gauge, reading about 50 PSI. BUT NO OIL AT THE ROCKERS.

Decided to install the distributor and run the engine with oil pressure to see what would work out. I couldn't get the distributor to engage the oil pump. Using my dial calipers, determined that the shaft below the drive gear is not long enough to reach the oil pump! Asked him if he was sure he had the oil pump properly seated, said he hadn't removed it. While the dimension from the body of the distributor is long enough , it looks like the shaft is just too short from the drive gear to engage the oil pump. The fellow is a great restorer body and chassis wise, but woefully lacking in engine skills so I am not sure if I can totally depend on his testimony (Not that I think he is not truthful, but simply doesn't understand the engine well enough to provide reliable information.)

Here are my questions:
1. Is it possible that someone installed the wrong distributor, or perhaps used a wrong shaft? If so what is it likely to be?
2. When he got the engine, someone had run an external copper line from the oil pressure gauge port on the left side of the engine to the pipe plug just below the valve cover on the right side. It seems to me that they were trying to solve a plugged passage way with this fix. Is it possible for the rear cam bearing to turn and block the feed port? Or is it more likely it is simply plugged up? My friend says he cleaned the copper line and the passage in the head, but didn't go into the block

I advised him to use the drill motor to run the oil pump, remove the copper line at the block and see if he has oil. IF so, just keep just keep chasing the flow until he finds the blockage. IF he doesn't have oil from the port on the right side of the engine inside the cover, try to clean that port. IF not successful, the engine will have to come apart.

The sad part is that he had obviously run the engine long enough to overheat it due to lack of oil, so has probably ruined all the bearings anyway.

Appreciate your input.

All of the distributor shafts are the same length. You could install a 1937 or a 1957 distributor in the engine and all would engage the oil pump.
Could the problem be the oil pump?
if it is a 1957 engine the oil is pumped to the rear main bearing. From there it goes through the grove in the cam bearing to a passage to the lifter gallery.(stick shift 1957 engines do not have the lifter oil gallery - does the engine have one?)
A very late 1957 235 did not have the short oil line to the head. The lifter gallery was fed from the front and rear main. The oil in the front and rear of the gallery met in the center and went up to the rocker arms thru block and head passages.
The location where they generally plugged up is where the oil passage makes a zig-zag at the head gasket.

Thanks Gene, now I am in a real quandary. I don't know the answer to most of your questions as I didn't do the engine and have not had it apart aside from removing the distributor. From your discussion, I am guessing that the oil pump is not seated properly thus the distributor shaft cant reach it. I am going to have him send me the casting number on the block to be sure we know what year it is and if it is truly a powerglide or stick shift. To be more specific, I took my dial calipers and extended it into the hole. Seated the tip of the probe in the oil pump slot and the ledge on the edge of the hole above the opening to the shaft where the drive gear would touch. It measures 5/8 of an inch deeper that the distance from the drive gear collar to the tip of the slotted shaft. No way it can reach the oil pump. Given that he has run it so long with no oil to the bearings, I believe it is inevitable the engine will have to come out and be torn down.

Thanks again for your help,

Ron

My advise is to at least remove the oil pan, rod and main bearing caps to check the bearings and reposition (or replace) the oil pump.

Ironically it helps to prove that only a minimum amount of oil flow is necessary to keep the bearings from total destruction.

I wonder if the oil pump is not all the way up in place.
To check the original engine installation it will be necessary to get the engine number stamped into the ledge behind the distributor.
Alll 1957 casting numbers are the same. The hydraulic lifter engines were driled and will have a plug at the rear of the engine inline with the lifters. Also a lifter could be removed and check to see if there is a hole in front and to the rear of the lifter bore.
All things considered this engine should be torn down and inspected from head to toe.

I would suggest a total rebuild -with no oil pressure the rocker arms, shafts, etc are likely damaged - with the engine properly identified and with matching parts there to.

Well, at least the all mechanisms attached to the head are likely shot. I ruined the rocker train on my 41 coupe when on going to adjust the valves (rebuild), I found that the over the top pipe that provides the gravity feed had dropped off. Everything was scored badly. Replaced everything by robbing a set off a used engine. Mercy!

Charlie

I recently was preparing a new engine for starting and pulled the distributor to spin the oil pump. It appeared that the shaft was too short to reach the pump, so I did a quick measurement and sure enough, it was not reaching the pump. A quick inspection indicated that when the new dist. was installed, the clamp for the holddown was placed too far down on the dist. body preventing it from coming close to engaging the pump. Simple mistake with major consequences.