VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 1928 National Wobbly Wheels

Like many others I’ve been working on my cars this winter getting ready for the summer season. On my 28 National AB Business Coupe I was adjusting the brakes, and checked the front and rear wheels for alignment. I found that 3 of the 4 wheels had a wobble to them. Some were worse than others. After a long period of checking the solid disk wheels and the split wheel rims I’ve determined that the disc wheels are straight and true, the spindles are okay and the axle is not bent. I’ve narrowed it down to the Split Wheel Rims being slightly bent or out of round. As a result they don’t lock into the wheel rim and spin without a wobble. You can actually see on the outside of the wheel that the rim touches the wheel in some spots but not in others. It seems you have to apply some sort of force to the outer edges of the rims to get them to seat against the wheels so you can torque the jaxon lug nuts on the studs to make them run true. However, after applying as much force as possible I still have one wheel that will not spin without a wobble, which causes tire wear problems.

Has anyone had this problem and a solution for truing up the rim on the wheel? I know I see a lot of old cars with wheels that wobble, and after 85 years of use probably none of these wheels or rims is perfect any more. I don’t want to remove the tire from the rims to do this as that is a hassle to get back together again, so I have to do it with the tire on the rim. I’m guessing that if I break the tire bead on the rim so I have room, and apply a bar clamp to both sides of the rim I can apply enough force to get the rim to become more round so it seats against the back side of the wheel rim. I’m sure others have had this problems on these old wheels and rims.
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I know I see a lot of old 20s cars on the road with wheels that wobble a little, so maybe that is just the way it is, but I would like to find a solution. Can anyone help?

You are lucky that you can identify what the problem is. Rims for the 1928 are available and generally at a reasonable price. I would concentrate on finding some more good rims. Understand the knuckle drill of the moving a tire and tube to a new home, but that is the best way to tackle your problem

Careful if you purchase some rims. The 28 (only year) is 3 inches across the bottom of the rim, while the 27 and earlier are 2 1/2 inches and they are not interchangeable.

The most frequent problem is someone bent the rim mounting or dismounting a tire without the proper technique or equipment. Once bent it is difficult to straighten them. Don't know of a reliable way to do that without putting them in a press. Might be possible with tire still mounted but I would think not as easy as with bare rim. Don't take chance of ruining a $100+ tire and $20 tube either.

I have straighten some wobbly wheels with this method.
1: Jack up the car so the wheels rotate freely.
2: Loose all 4 nuts (6 on trucks) so the rim are loose/free from the wheel
3. Then, tight the nut, one by one simultaneous,and turn the wheel and see how it's wobble and how the wobble change when you tight/slack the nuts. Use a fixed post and chalk.
May be not 100% straight, but better than before.
Regards
Arvid

I actually have 4 other rims/wheels that I got out of Florida, but they need painting and I don't have the cash right now since that is about an $800 price tag with pin striping. I was hoping to save the rims I have now, or at least get them to the point that the wobble is very little. Although the wobble looks weird and does wear the tires unevenly, if I can get close enough to straight I will use them as I only put a few hundred miles on the car every year. As someone mentioned a hydraulic press might solve the problem but I don't know anyone with a press big enough to take that wheel.

Thanx for the reply.

I tried finding a press but most of them are too small to take the wheel/rim/tire. I agree that a press is probably the best way to go once the tire bead is loosened so no pressure goes against it. I guess I can just live with the minor wobble and some tire wear since I don't drive that many miles each year. I have 4 other wheels/rims that appear to be straight. Soon as I can afford to have them sandblasted and painted I can mount them, but that is an $800 tab.

I know of one place with a large enough press, so I may just take it there and see what happens. Probably can't make it any worse. Can also take it to a restoration place I know that says they can straighten rims to see what happens.

Thanx for the timely reply.

Thanx for the tip. I'll give it a try. I've already tried a number of different lug tightening techniques to get it done, but none have worked so far. I've got some other ideas using a bar clamp on either side of the rim after the tire bead is loosened. Since the rim seems to be bent on one side, probably from prior tire mounting, I am hoping a couple of bar clamps and some pressure will bend it back the other way far enough to seat it on the wheel so the jaxon lugs will pull it into shape and hold it. I acquired the car from a guy in New York who claimed it was a Frame Off Restoration, but have found in the last year he exaggerated tremendously. Either he agreed to shortcuts, or the restoration place did it without his consent or knowledge, but either way it does not meet Frame Off standards so I am redoing it now. They probably bent the rims when putting new tires on. I know they did not do good work because I had a flat tire and found the tube was rotted, had two patches, and the valve stem just came out of the tube. Also found the starter and generator not rebuilt, and water pump was held in place with a set screw that came loose. Also found rear brake not installed properly so I had to fix that. Cost me a lot to redo all the things they didn't do, but I got the car cheap to begin with. They did do nice body and interior work however. I call it a Body Off restoration and not a Frame Off. But I do enjoy the car.

Thanx for the timely reply.

I would suggest you find another option for painting the rims. $200 each is several times what it costs me to have someone else blast and paint rims and wheels. Just remember that both galvanized and black rims are correct for 1928. Not sure if it is an early-late issue or different suppliers or regional.

I've checked with restoration shops and independent painters, and they all seem to be the same so maybe it is just regional pricing. Fortunately I was able to find a matching wheel paint color in Rust-Oleum spray for my spare wheels so all I may need is some sandblasting and I can paint them myself. Sandblasting may go $100 and the paint about $25, but I'm no pin striping whiz so that is still $50/Wheel. I agree it is crazy for two little lines that will take less than 5 minutes work per wheel, but that seems to be the problem. For now I am living without pin stripes on the current restored wheels and no one knows the difference. I see other 28s without pin stripped wheels. The outfit that originally did the striping screwed it up. They did not use pin striping paint or put it UNDER the clear coat. It is on top and if you spray WD-40 or any lubricant on the wheels the stripes wipe right off. I wouldn't use Golden Restorations in NY for anything now that I see the shortcuts they took.

Even though I've resisted, with all my might, to avoid buying tools for my car hobby and living with what I have from my many years as a wood worker, I found a 20 Ton press at Harbor Freight that is big enough to take the wheels. I'm no fan of giving more business to China, but I checked out the press and it gets stellar reviews from users as the best press for the money ($169 on Sale as of April 30). Due to the trial and error nature of trying to straighten rims, put them on car, trying them, repeat if not correct, you need to do it where the car is. You can't do it much if you are letting someone else do it only to find out they aren't straight when you get them on the car, and having to go back and explain the problem. Gas alone would cost a bunch. So, as a matter of practicality I may just have to buy the press. I can use it for other things like bending metal, pressing bearings and bushings which is always a possibility on old cars (I have 2 other cars I work on). Then all I have to do is hope I have the skills to get them straight. If not I'm sure I can sell the press for $100 to minimize my investment, but I will probably keep it. I have to take most of my tires off the rims anyway since the guy I bought the car from used old inner tubes and did not put flaps in when he put NEW tires on the car. Stupid, stupid, stupid! A bent rim at the split will only increase the chances of a flat without flaps or straightening the rim at the split, or wherever it is bent/out of round. I don't drive that much either, but other drivers are always pulling up next to me at lights and telling me I have wobbling wheels (they probably think they are loose and will fall off). Just about every old car I see has one or more wobbly wheels. Not looking for perfection on them.

Regards and thanx for the info

First why don't you determine why the wheels are wobbly?
Do you have steel disc wheels of wood spoke wheels?
I have found that if the discs are straight then the detachable rims may just not be straight on the disc wheels.I jack up rhe wheel and set a large hammer next to the side of the tire and rotate the wheel and adjust the rim bolts to make the tire run straight. Are the lug studs straight in the brake drums and do you have the outside steel rings with the lug bolt holes that the lug nuts bear against?
Have you thought about doing the pinstriping your self/ We usually just do pinstriping on the car. put the wheel to be striped on a jacked up front wheel and use a striping brush or stripping tool and use a bucket sitting next to the wheel for a steady rest and use your free hand to slowly rotate the wheel with the brush held steady against the wheel, resting your hand on the rim of the bucket. I like to apply the paint and roll the wheel so that the applied paint is down stream to the direction you rotate the wheel. Try it you may like it!

Have the solid disc wheels. Have run a "run out" check on the wheels, and they are straight. Some have minor flange bends where the jaxon lugs go on, but those are easily straightened with a hammer. I've done numerous checks over a period of about 5 weeks by checking each wheel and verifying it is straight when spun on the right front spindle. Then I put a SWR on that wheel, seat it, tighten jaxons and spin test. I check the back side of the wheel to make sure the SWR is fully seated against the wheel flange and tighten the jaxons to different torque values to see if it will bring them into line (it doesn't). I've checked each rim on each wheel and played "musical rims":to see if anything might offset the wobble. It doesn't. I can see when the SWR is on the wheel that some are also "out of round", which is easy to spot since the SWR will not seat fully against the wheel and you can see the space/gap between them. Some SWRs have minor flange bends, but those are also easy to straighten out and shouldn't affect the tires spinning without wobbling. Also, in looking at some of the SWRs you can see that they don't match up properly at the split; e.g. they've been bent either right or left, probably when prior owners changed tires. It seems some folks "pull the rim off the tire" instead of "pulling the tire off the rim" and in the process bend the rim, which is easier than most think. Straightening the bend is the hard part. That will take a shop press to do. I've also talked to some restoration professionals about the issue and they agree that it is the rims that are causing the wobble. It only wobbles about 1/4" or less depending on which rim you check. Some only wobble about 1/16" which the runout gauge tells me (a home made simple run out tool). On most rim/tire tests it will spin straight for about 3/4 of the rim/tire,l and then wobble only for the last 1/4, which tells me the last 1/4 is where the problem is (that or the other 3/4 is bent which I don't see happening).

Due to limited funds I'm doing a lot of things I might have had done, and so I may do the striping myself. For now I just wiped the old stripes off and have unstriped wheels, since I've seen others without stripes and most folks don't know the difference if they don't see them.

Thanx for the response.

If you haven't checked lately tubes and flaps cost a lot more than $20, and a good Firestone tire will set you back almost $200 with shipping. I've read enough to know those $99 off brand tires are nothing but trouble. Once I get my new 20 ton press I plan to put the wheel and rim/tire in the press, with no air in the tire, and make sure the SWR is fully seated against the wheel flange to see if that solves the problem I know from looking that the SWR does not fully seat against the flange in one or two cases. I figure a 20 ton ram should seat it as much as it is going to go so I can recheck it. It shouldn't take 20 tons of pressure however so I will go slow and easy so as not to damage anything. Since I know the wheel is straight that gives me a base point to work from.