VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc '41 transmission removal

I did it. I got the Mainshaft out. After more carefully reading Charlie's reply I reinstalled the rear bearing. I put the First and Reverse Gear in the middle of the Second and Third Speed Clutch. Made sure all the gears were turning smoothly, then put a block of wood on the end of the Mainshaft where the universal joint is attached. Using a small brass hammer I lightly taped on the Mainshaft while watching that none of the gears teeth were knocking against each other. The Mainshaft came easily out the front of the transmission. This allowed me to remove the Second and Third Speed Clutch and the First and Reverse Gear through the side of the transmission case. Amazing, Amazing, Amazing. Sid the DVD and tools I have made are on there way, Mike

P.S. Here is a picture of the tools I made. The first tool is on the end of the clutch gear. It was made from a clutch disc. It protects the clutch gear from being marred from using a pipe wrench to loosen the round nut holding the bearing in place. My second tool is the contraption that is holding the nut in place so you can remove it. If you have ever tried to get the nut off you already know that it has a left hand thread and is punched next to the Clutch Gear to keep it from moving. So first you must drill the protruding metal from the nut then figure how you are going to unscrew the nut.

Thanks for all your help Mike. I'll make sure we double your pay!
Sid

In the top photo a tool is shown in the 41 manual for removing the synchronizing ring. I worked for a couple hours to figure how to remove the ring with small screwdrivers and dental tools. I finally decided to make my own tool. You can see it in the following pictures. I now have it down to a couple of minutes to remove or install a ring. I removed the tips on my special pliers and replaced them with 2 finishing nails. The nails are each filed flat on one side with the points left on. Another Great Step for Mankind.

Sid you need to make yourself a pair if you decide to rebuild your transmission. Good luck, Mike

With Mike's special tools and video and Charlie's advice, we got the transmission apart today! The bearings and gears look great as I said previously, but we are not sure about the synchronizing rings and the clutch assembly (barrel shaped gear in trans). We took the rings out using modified snap ring pliers as Mike suggested. We think the rings look good, but it would be better to compare them with new ones. The cone shaped brass rings in each end of the clutch that the synchro rings ride on have some wear, but again, it is hard to tell if it is too much wear. These rings appear to be secured in the clutch by hitting them with a punch in 4 places around the clutch. These rings are not listed in Filling Station's catalog, but the synchro rings are. Does someone have a new set and could measure them, or maybe a picture could show enough detail. A picture of a new synchro ring would also be helpful.
Another good piece of news - a friend brought me an NOS vacuum cylinder (in the box) that has been on a shelf in his barn for 39 years! It holds vacuum well, and should work just fine. Both vacuum tubes were sealed with red rubber corks. I'll lube it with Marvel Mystery Oil before installing.
Thanks for all the help guys,
Sid

Hi Sid, Congrats on getting the transmission apart. Did you get the counter and idler gears out? They are the ones shown in my first picture? The directions for removing these gears in the manual seem to indicate you drive them out threw the plugs on the exterior of the transmission case. Am I right???

The rest of the pictures are to show you the wear on my synchronizing rings. First off I took the rings out of a transmission that I had never used in my car so do not know how well the transmission was shifting!!! Second, when I took the rings out this time I forgot to label them as front and back rings!!! This caused me to realize that both rings were identical. Using a micrometer I found them to both have an outer diameter at their widest of 2.201" and at their narrowest of 2.056". I measured across from the interior lugs on the rings to establish a common diameter location on the rings. The manual tells you that If the rings can be rocked by pushing them side to side with your thumbs then they are worn. I could barely get one of them to do this. So I think mine are ok as they fit against their brass cones.

The last pictures show the wear on my cones and rings. To me the suspicious wear patterns are evident in the inside of the rings where the lugs are, but I still think they are minor since I can not feel any grooving.

I guess I could/should take the transmission apart that I do use in my car. That one I know has worn synchronizing parts since I have to double clutch to shift into second gear from first to keep the gears from grinding. It has always shifted easily into third including when downshifting. Thanks, Mike

P.S. I can not believe how easy it is to remove and reinstall the retainers for the rings with my pliers. I can get them both in and out in about 30 to 60 seconds!!!

I just inspected the rings and cones. both rings "rock" when placed in one side of the "barrel", but they don't rock when placed in the other side. Both rings have visible, but not excessive wear on the lugs. There doesn't seem to be any scoring or any other sign of wear anywhere else on the rings. I plan to replace the rings, but I'm not sure about the cones. I don't see any wear on them. The slots between the ridges of the cones are still very pronounced, but if I can rock the rings back and forth on one of them, I think it should be replaced too. Where do I find new cones, or do I have to find a new or good used barrel or clutch as they call it in the diagram?
Since the gears and bearings all looked very good, we chose not to remove the rest of the gears.
Thanks for the help,
Sid

I took the transmission that I use in my car apart today. At first glance it seems to be in good condition. No excessive wear on the shift forks, the sync rings are shinny and the brass cones they rest in show deep sectional grooves with well defined lines throughout each section. Since I have just taken apart another transmission I have something to compare this too. All the areas mentioned above are quite worn/damaged in the extra trans. that I have. I want to look more closely tomorrow at each individual gear and see where the wear marks are. I had already replaced the two bearings in my good trans., so I may want to leave well enough alone.

Sid, I do not think you can just buy new brass cones? I think you need to replace the whole clutch gear as one unit which should also include the sync. rings. Good, Luck, Mike

50% of the wear items can not be seen without removing all the gears for inspection.

Good news. When I removed the small snap rings that secured the synchro rings in the clutch, I could not "rock" the synchro rings on the cones. Wish I had thought of that previously. So, I have ordered the new synchro rings (only because the lugs had some wear). When they arrive, will reassemble the trans.
Sid

Since my trans was in such very good shape inside, I assume then that my shifting problems were from the non-functioning vacuum cylinder and possibly some adjustment issues as well. We'll find out when it all comes back together.
My new vacuum cylinder will need to be lubricated, and I had planned to use marvel mystery oil. Isn't the piston inside the cylinder covered with leather? If so, would neatsfoot oil be better?
Thanks,
Sid

The parts arrived from the filling station yesterday. Interestingly, what they call synchro rings is different from what is shown as part #4.383 in the diagram Mike shows above. The rings they sent are what we have been calling "cones" in this discussion. A few days ago I didn't think anyone had the cones available, and now I have a set! I'll check with them to see if they have #4.383 tomorrow.
Sid

Hello Sid,
i´ve got my synchro Rings from "chevy b" here in the forum. Don´t know if he has more.
https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/271754/Re_1940_Synchronizer_Rings#Post271754

Thanks Alligator, the rings you show in the picture are like the ones I got from filling station. We called them "cones" in this discussion. We plan to use them today as we re-assemble the trans. The synchro rings that ride on them have minimal wear, and will probably be okay. I'll know in a few days.
I'm still wondering about using Neats foot oil to lubricate my new vacuum cylinder. Can anyone comment on that?
Sid

Neats foot oil would be a good choice for a freshly built unit.

We got the trans back together yesterday! The first cone removal and replacement went well. The old cones were staked in place, so the 4 staked areas had to be drilled out, and then the old cones were pried out first with channel locks and then a bent screw driver and a few large washers to pry against. The second speed cone was smeared with lock-tite and hammered in place. We did not think re-staking was necessary to secure it. The synchro ring was then installed carefully using modified snap ring pliers and 3 hands (definitely a 2 man job). The installation of the 3rd speeed cone did not go so well. It was installed the same way, but when the synchro ring was installed on top of it and snap ringed in place, the synchro ring would not spin as it should. With great difficulty, we removed the synchro ring and then the cone. We measured the cone and found it was several thousands thicker, so we set it aside, and re-installed the better of the 2 old cones, and then installed its synchro ring. Both synchro rings then operated properly. After that, re-assembling the rest of the trans was a breeze in comparison. I was very glad my machinist friend was available to handle this job for me. I probably could have done it by myself, but I would have spent 6 times as much time, and would have added several more cuss words to my vocabulary, and probably lost the remaining 10 hairs on top of my head! I'll put the trans back in the '41 in the next few days, and see if it shifts better. I'm betting that much of my problem was with the non-functioning vacuum cylinder, and with a new one, hopefully that will be resolved.
Thanks to everyone for your help,
Sid

I bought the trans mount repair kit (ML-8) from filling station. Parts of my old mount were home made, and I'm not sure how this kit fits on to the mounting bracket (piece with 4 bolt holes that bolts to the crossmember). It appears the 2 pieces of rubber go above and below the mounting bracket. Does the metal plate (that came with the kit) go above the upper piece of rubber between the mount and the trans? If so, does it replace the larger thin metal piece that is there now?
Sid

I just did this in April and searched around for replacement parts, eventually getting a rebuild kit from Chevs of the 40's and additional parts from The Filling Station and Vintage Auto. Vintage Auto had the sycnro rings which the mechanic who rebuilt my tranny said were just a "hair" larger than the original ones. He shaved them down a bit to match up. Yes, the tranny does come out through an opening in the floor. There is a metal floor cover that is held in place by a series of screws. Once removed, the opening is large enough to manoeuver the tranny out. It does of course involve undoing the torque tube from the back of the transmission and the bolts holding the transmission mount, linkage etc. It's all listed in the Chevy repair manual. I just re-installed the tranny yesterday (Aug 31) with a lot of frustration. I hope it went in correctly. Won't know until I reconnect the linkage, torque tube etc and get all four wheels on the ground. NOTE: Get a new set of transmission mount rubber pads. The old ones were terrible.

My trans is now back in the car and functioning well. I posted the rest of the story as '41 Trans installation".
Sid