VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 lead additive for 216

Just wondering if a lead additive is really necessary for the 216. I've been told both yes and no. Any thoughts?

You don't really need it. Your 216 should run just fine on unleaded. Mine has been for years!

Nope, I don't think your 216 needs it, My dad's 48 Chevy pickup he bought used, he used Casing head gasoline, (about the same thing as Coleman lantern fuel). and never added anything but some alcohol to get rid of the water it usually had in it. he put over a 100,000 miles on the engine in over 6 or 7 years. had a couple of valve grinding jobs never replaced a valve seat.
and another thing, I would never invest in having hardened valve seats put in, unless the old ones needed replaced any way, probably from running too lean a mixture or timeing was off.
And one more thing while I am thinking about it, there is nothing wrong with babbit rods and a splash oiling system, There just aren't that many places that can do babbiting. Inserted rods don't carry the heat away from the bearings as well as babbit rods, so there, I said it!

Good for you Mr Mack! I love it!

Thanks for the info guys. Can't wait for better driving weather! Just had a rebuilt fuel pump put in and I'm ready to take my baby for a ride!

Great! And don't worry about the lead additive. You will do just fine without it!

I will just add my $0.25 cents to this, about 5 years ago I had the head rebuilt on my 1952 216, I talked to the machinist about hardened seats, he told me that I could expect to get a whole lbunch of miles out of the engine without doing the valve seats, I thas been right at 10,000 lots of long highway miles,and no problems, I admit to using some liquid lead for the first year but now only use a little top oil (MMO) when on the road.

Glyn, I don't know if MMO works(My Dad swore by it), and I never knew him to lie to me. But it sure does smell good!

"Elvira" oil works much better! :eek:

This has nothing to do with the topic but I have to ask, Does Elvira know you exist JYD? Considering the incredible amount of energy you devote to her I would think she would want to, at least meet you. Have you spoken with her directly? Are there other, overtly devoted fans, like you out there? Now that I think about it maybe we should create an "Elvira" forum. Do you think she drives an old chevy? (I felt I had to work chevrolet back into this response-watch this-&gt And if so, does she use a lead additive? (see-I'm right on topic...)

Brian

Hey Brian! That was a good one! Well, I will have to stop that think about if she uses lead additive or not. That is a very good question. Hum.....I know that she does use an "additive" but I don't know what it is. Ya, I wish that she did drive a Chevrolet, and then she would be totally cool, but unfortunately, she drives a 1958 Thunderbird. I wonder if it uses a lead additive or not?

Regarding your question if she has a big following. Well, at the bigger roadster shows that she attends, she gets more lookers than the cars do!

Here is an item of intrest for you. Our beloved administrator, Billy Boy Barker, has not only spoken to her at very great length, but he has some very intimate secrets as well, since he is a very big Elvira fan!

Okay....now back to Chevrolet. I have five cars that run on leaded gasoline, and among them are two 350's and one 327. Since unleaded came onto the scene all of my cars have been running on unleaded with absolutely no bad results whatsoever. And, one car has 400,000 miles on it and it has been running on unleaded for about 6 years now...and it just keeps on going....

Hey Mr. Mack, I don't know if it works or not either, but my wife got it as a swap gift at the club Christmas party, so I got to use it up. That is the Mystery in Marvel Mystery Oil, does it do any good or just smell good. At least it improves the odor of the new gas we use.

I don't know how MMO works in Chevrolet engines, but it sure does wonders for your complexion!

Marvel Mystery Oil is supposed to work as a good fogging oil when putting a car into long time storage, I wouldn't have any direct personal knowlege about long time storage but if it is like long time restoration projects it could be for a while!I think if I start on our 2001 Tahoe next year I may have it done by the year it is eligable to be shown.
OH I really like these little fellows a lot!
:love:

What Viagra is to a NASCAR driver MMO is to a hot water six!

I read in the G&D that some of the guys are adding 2 stroke oil to the fuel to help lubricate the valve train. Has anyone had any experience with this ??

MT, how much of the valve train would receive lubrication from oil in the fuel of a 4 cycle engine except for the intake valve head? Looks like to me it would just make for smoke in the exhaust system.

My wife says that if she puts a little MMO behind her ears and walks around the swap meets, she attracts a lot of old geezers but no one younger than about 65! :rolleyes: :confused:

Hum...that ain't good! Do any of these old dudes drive a Chevrolet? :eek: :(

They all drive Chevrolets, they are the only ones that are attracted to MMO! Actually I had an MMO injector on my 38 Chevrolet never did figure out if it was doing any good.

Cool! But, I'm more attracted to Elvira instead of MMO. She makes my "Chevy" purrrr a whole lot better! :eek: :eek:

JYD, does Elvira really make your Chevy purrrrr or is that just your Heart 'a-thumping and 'abumping and 'a -feelin' no pain?

Oh, she makes my Chevy "purrrrrr" all right, but my heart also goes "thump thump" like a flat tire!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Scientific experiemnt, I put a small picture of Elvira on my work bench and now my 91 Chev blazer will not idle down!

Really? You know.....I had a very similar problem myself. I just put a life size standup of Elvira in my garage and the last time that I started up my Chevy, the windshield wipers started working all by themselves, and they got going back and forth so fast that they flew off and stuck in the wall of my garage. And then....the stupid horn started blowing and it wouldn't stop. I finally had to cut the wires to shut it off. But ya know, it's the funniest thing.......the horn sounded like a wolf baying at the moon instead of like a normal horn. And.....it has never done that before! Now.....what's up with that?? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

ok...what the heck is marvel mystery oil??? :confused: :confused:

1948chevyman

It's a mystery oil that's a marvel! Glyn or Mr Mack.....do you want to take this one and answer the question? :eek:

Marvel Mystery Oil is....humm Well it is a Marvel that is a Mysterious Blend of some of this and some of that and.... Hummm, Well It is sold at finer auto parts stores and is in a oblong red and black can and it says Marvel Mystery Oil on the label, and Ahhhh, Well it is red in color and smells unlike any oil you ever smelled, and even when you fog your engine (pour a small amount down) (or up the carb) or (sideways into the carb) which ever kinda carb you have the white smoke generated smells devine, and so it must do some good, And that is just some of what I know about it! NEXT QUESTION?

Go Here! and know!http://www.autosupermart.com/cgi-bin/auto/brands/marvel.html?mv_pc=ovmarvel

or here.http://www.autosupermart.com/auto/images/marvel/marveloilsmall_t.gif

[b]And for you ex-Marines go to :
www.autosupermart.com
then on the Manufactors list on the left go down the list to marvel oil and CLICK

Since I was asked I will add another $0.25 cents worth, I am told that if you have a sick stove bolt six, idling rough rods and mains knocking,muffler bearing screeching and you poor a little MMO down the throat of the carb at fast idle all these ailments will go away, it is something like an Antibiotic made for cars. Now I do not know if this is true because all my Chevrolets have been in top shape and have never suffered from the above described ailments and that is why I could not tell if the MMO injector on my 38 was working or not.

Wouldn't Coors do the same thing??? :eek: :eek:

JYD, it depends which throat you pour the Coors down, I say save the Coors for AFTER you pour the MMO down or up the throat of the carb, and partake of a good and cold Colorado Koolaid, while you puff your chest up and contemplating what a good job you did on Elvira! (and the Chevy)

Hum....maybe you're right! I never thought of it that way!

Don't know about the curative powers of COORS as related to mechanical things, but I do know from the experience of putting about a case of SICKS Brewery stuff down the radiator of my friends 42 F*** that it does not work well as a coolant (for cars that is).

Have you tried "Rattle Snake" Beer? I've heard that it works great as a coolant for just about anything...that is..if you can get past the smell of it! :eek: :eek:

Hi Pat. Back to your original question, unless your engine is running on the lean side of normal, you shouldn't have any problems. If the valves start to seat in from using unleaded, you will find the valve clearances reduce and the engine won't idle as well.

I had a slight very leak in the rear seal of the intake manifold and noticed the exhaust sound at idle wasn't as crisp as it had been. The clearances on the valves of the rear cylinders was reduced and checking the spark plugs showed that the rear ones were a very light brown as opposed to tan on the front ones. Changing the manifold gasket solved the problem.

If you do decide to use a lead substitute make sure you don't add too much or the intake valve stems will become coated and the valves will bind. This will show up when you go to start the a cold engine. You will get lots of metallic noise from pushrods bending and hitting the side cover, and the engine may not start.

I found this out because I was getting ready for a long trip pulling a 13 foot travel trailer and tried using double dose of the lead substitute, as per the directions on the bottle.

Congratulations to this thread for returning to the serious side.

Hum....some of us like to have fun in life, while I guess other folks take life more seriously.

At any rate, another thing to watch out for, as far as lead additive is concerned, is that in some cases the lead additive has been known to disfigure the modern replacement Viton tip on the carburetor float needle (for those of you that use this type of replacement needle in your carburetors), preventing the needle to seal correctly against the seat, thus causing serious flooding. This problem can be eliminated by changing out the Viton needle with the OEM metal needle and seat assembly. :eek:

I have a 1946 pickup with a 216 and unleaded with no additive works just fine. My dad has been a mechanic since 1956 and here is a tip for storing a vehicle over a long period of time. If you want to keep the cylinders from drying out you take out the spark plugs and spray some automatic transmission fluid in the holes. It will lube the cylinder walls and burn out quicker than other oils. Another good idea is to put Stay-Bil in the gas tank. This will keep your gasoline from turning to varnish and stop you from breaking out the old steam cleaner.

Hey MudbugnLouisiana! Thanks for the tip!

No problem bud, glad to make suggestions.

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking all 350 Chevies came with hardened valve seats. My brother had a 1965 Checker (still has)with a 327 at the time of the change over, and the cab company he worked for redid the heads for him. It's still going strong.

Contrarywise, I was driving a Ford PU with 400 inches and headed out across country to the east with it. We still had leaded gas in Colorado, but out about east Kansas they stopped selling it. I figured they had Unleaded +, so that must have an additive to replace it.... WRONG! By the time I reached South Carolina I had four valves sucked up into the heads and had to buy heads at a wrecking yard to get back home. Luckily there was a newer full sized sedan with the right engine for a direct swap.

Chevrolets and GM cars all had induction hardened valve seats starting in 1971. This is when GM firstrecommended unleaded gas.
True, I have seen some Ford engines that had the valves pound down the seats.
I have driven my "old Chevrolets" many of thousands of high speed miles and never had a valve problem.
You will know that there is a problem if the exhaust valves "self-tighten" - which will cause a miss at idle.
I wouldn't know what to add to prevent valve seat recession a most of the additives are not really lead as lead is a poison and if the additive does contain lead the poison symbol would be on the container.

The car with the 400,000 miles with the 350 engine that I was referring to in my posting is a 1969 Impala and it didn't have hardened valve seats.

Junkyard dog, oil, additives and what ever aside, I know Elvira.
Really, n BS. Can't tell you why or how. But I can say she is fun, smart, interesting and, ahh, well, just as you see her on TV.

Enjoy,
Michael41