VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1949-1954 1951 engine paint

Does any one have the PPG paint code for 1951 dark gray engine paint ? The Filling Station sells it but I like to NOT pay the high shipping cost and buy local. Thanks.

There is no code for the engine paint. If you have a part with original paint then you can have it matched. Otherwise you will need to purchase and have it shipped.

Hi; If you still have the paint for sale please call me or send me your number.Thanks Ed 914-245-5683

Sorry put respone in wrong place

That's O.K. There is an "edit" thingy here on the bottom line to get rid of boo-boo's and changes of heart , etc. Good Luck !

You can only edit your post for up to one hour. After that time period you can no longer edit and the "Edit" button will disappear.

i bought my engine paint from HIRSCH i beleive he is located in new york or new jersey so shipping wouldnt be all that much i would check them out andy

ps. prepping the engine is the most important part of doing the job correctly,take some time degreasing and cleaning the block and your paint job will last no matter whose brand of paint you use

Does Hirsch now have the correct shade of engine paint?
Charlie

Stick with the filling station.If you want the correct color,spend the few extra $ to have it shipped from Oregon

I have the dark gray paint code now ! No more high price paint plus shipping from the west coast , that I can get at the auto parts . I will share the info . Thanks.

Paint code for engine paint? Where did you get a paint code for the engine paint?

I like save where I can and like to help others do the same. I have the code and will check fri to make sure ppg dealer can mix.

National Chevy Assoc in St. Paul has spray cans as does Chevs of the Forties. Not sure what you mean by "high shipping costs."?? They're sold in spray cans and one can can do an entire engine, and the shipping is only about eight bucks. $20 a can from COTF.

You'll easily spend the difference on sales tax and gas buying it locally.

Good point !

Will you share the paint code with us here ????

If you do buy from Chev's of the 40's or Filling Station dark blue paint their colors are very close to the same but their thickness varies largly with the Filling Stations being the thicker of the 2

The 51 engine paint is dark gray. Are you referring to the thickness in spray cans or quarts?? Does the thicker paint cover better??

I will share ppg code in a few days. F S pint is $ 38.00. I don't like spray cans.Thanks.

"I will share ppg code in a few days". Why wait a few days?

In a PM I was advised he is checking with his paint supplier to be sure the code he has can still be mixed.

I agree. Unless you're going for a "concours" type restoration and live and die by judging, any of the dark gray engine enamels will get you close. I believe the Chevy restoration manual for 1951 only states "dark gray" and does not provide paint numbers anyway. Close is good enough for a driver. (I can't see how any judge would split hairs on that, but I'm sure Chevy judging has a few anal retentive types in its ranks like anywhere else)
I see large variations in the Chevy Blue engine paint used in later model 235s (52-) also. The '52 motor found in my 51 had Chevy Blue. Also, GM Blue is close but also used on Pontiacs and Olds..

I have a 41 Special Deluxe 2 door sedan that I just purchased. In looking at what there is left of the paint, on both the fan blade and valve cover, it sure looks alot more blue than grey. Is this possible? Judging from the amount of dirt and grease on everything, it doesn't look to me like anyone would have ever painted the engine.

Is it possible that I have a blue engine color and not grey?

The fan blades were always black and there were no blue engines in 1941 - the 1953 Power Glide engine was the first blue engine.

I'm sure most of us would struggle over an incorrect engine color.The FS sell the paint by the pint and dought if it would take more then that.Your not talking alot of money here,Bite the bullet and do it correctly.

Well I wasn't present in 1941 durring the assemby of every engine (or any of them, for that matter), therefore, I can't make statement's that include the words "never" or "always". I just find it interesting that the engine (including the fan blade) in my 41, that has a 41 serial number, is more blue than gray. That, I know for sure.

And what shade of "blue" would you mean...if you were to describe it ?

I'll try to remember to post a picture.
This is not a big deal to me. Just a curiosity.

...When you have a chance...we're curious too...

I rebuilt and painted a 1934 1 1/2 ton engine about 8 years ago and used filling station paint. I was happy with it. It looked the same as n o s parts pictured some time ago here. I painted today a 62 235 to replace an engine in a 51 hardtop dark gray. Not even close, not as dark as the 34 engine. Also came from F S. If I was to do more engines I don't know who to buy paint from . The F S does a good job but they missed this one.I may take pictures of both and send to Jerry Adams for him to look over. Thanks.

If I were to pull the engine (to paint), what gaskets would you guys replace while it was out. In other words, what gaskets always seem to leak? Thanks.

Still interested in the engine paint code that you have, for I have not seen a paint code for the engine. Please provide the code. Thanks.

Well I have a couple of pictures, but I can't figure out how to post them.

OK, there are two pictures in the Member's Photos section on the left.

[img]https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showpic&id=1891[/img]
[img]https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showpic&id=1892[/img]

The coil should not be painted...Someone has repainted the engine the wrong color

Yep, wrong color with overspray on the fan blades.

Joe's right...It's more blue than bray I mean gray typo sorry...

Regarding the gaskets, the following are the most likely sources of leakage: valve cover, pushrod cover, oil pan, rear main seal, front crankshaft seal. Also, look for evidence of coolant leakage at the water neck and thermostat housing and around the water pump. If there are signs of leakage, replace these three gaskets.

Unless you're planning to disassemble the engine, you can't replace the rear or front seals. If you are planning to disassemble the engine, I recommend the overhaul gasket set provided by The Filling Station. It is supplied by Best Gasket, which, in my opinion, are superior to the gaskets in the FelPro gasket set supplied by Napa. One of the differences is that the Best Gasket valve cover gasket is 1/4" thick, while the FelPro is only 3/16" thick. I have better luck with the thicker gasket. Also, the Best Gasket pushrod cover and oil pan gaskets are made from an asbestos-like compound, versus the FelPro cork/neoprene compound.

The head gasket in the Best Gasket set is made with laminated copper, versus the Felpro steel laminated. The Best Gasket set includes the small valve stem seals used on the later 216's, while the Felpro set does not.

If you're not planning to disassemble the engine, you should replace the valve cover gasket, pushrod cover gasket, and oil pan gaskets. You'll probably want to remove these covers anyway for cleaning and painting.

With regard to the valve cover gasket, it's best to wait till the engine is reinstalled in the car before installing the gasket, as most engine lifting devices require using two or more head bolts, and the gasket is too close to the head bolts on the right side, such that installing the lifting device may damage the gasket.

To install the valve cover gasket, remove all old gasket and adhesive residue from the gasket surface on the head, then clean the surface thoroughly with acetone. At the risk of bringing down the wrath of about half of the VCCA membership on my head, I recommend gluing the gasket to the head with black silicone adhesive. Silicone adhesive gets a bad rap, largely because it is applied too heavily and the excess is often squeezed into the interior of the engine, where it can get balled up, dislodged, and end up blocking an oil passage somewhere. The trick is to use a very thin layer, which is all that is required. Do not lay a bead of adhesive on the head like you were caulking the bathtub--rather, use your finger to spread the thinnest possible layer on the gasket surface, wiping off any excess. Silicone adhesive is effective against oil, gasoline, and water, and is easily removed.
After applying the adhesive to the head, set the gasket in place, then bolt the valve cover down to hold the gasket in place till the adhesive sets. I don't recommend gluing the valve cover to the gasket, as the valve cover needs to be removed periodically for valve adjustments, and if glued to the gasket, on removing the valve cover, it can lift the gasket from the head, resulting in possible future leakage.

In installing the pushrod cover gasket, I use the same procedure as the valve cover, except that I do glue the cover to the gasket, as the pushrod cover is not normally required to be removed for routine maintenance like the valve cover. Also, I glue both sides of the round cork spark plug hole gaskets when installing the pushrod cover.

To install the oil pan gaskets, clean the gasket surfaces on the block and the pan with acetone, as described above. Also clean out the oil pan gasket grooves on the front and rear main bearing caps. Glue the oil pan side gaskets to the block (here again, I recommend a thin layer of black silicone adhesive), making sure that the tabs on the ends of the gaskets are seated into the gasket grooves on the front and rear main bearing caps. After the side gaskets are installed, force the cork end gaskets into the grooves in the bearing caps, bringing the ends of the cork down to butt on top of the side gaskets. I lay a small fillet of adhesive in each corner where the cork end gaskets meet the side gaskets, then bolt on the pan. I find it not necessary to glue the oil pan to the gaskets, and by not doing so, it is much easier to get the oil pan off for future inspections/adjustments, without having to redo the oil pan gaskets.

Mark very good details!!

Mark.....Good job on the instructions....I think you left out a important thing though.....A person before they put the oil pan back on, should lay the flange of the pan ,were the gasket goes, on a straight and flat surface,with the bottom of the pan down, and with the ball part of a ball-peen hammer lightly tape each and every bolt hole down flat, to take out the crown made by tightening the bolts too tight over the years, so the pan will attach nice and flat and let the gasket seat better.
......ED

That's probably what happend. The fuel and vacuum hard lines have paint on them also, and I don't think they are suppose to.

Good reminder Ed...some might forget or even not realize that it's best to flatten out anything that resembles a bullet hole , la bamba ! S.A.

Thank you Mark for the outstanding detail on not only what gaskets to replace, but how to replace replace them.

If I pull the engine, can I replace the rear main seal? It is obviously leaking. How about the crank seal? Do I just need to pull the balancer?

Thanks Ed. I would never have thought of that. I'll make sure I do it.

Joe,

Unfortunately, you have to remove the crankshaft to replace the rear main seal. The problem is the upper seal half--you just can't get the old one out and the new one in with the crankshaft in place.

As it happens, I am working on a 51 216 right now. The rear seal was leaking, and what we found was that one end of the upper seal half was about 1/4 inch short of butting up to the mating seal half in the bearing cap. This is a sure recipe for rear seal leakage. However, in this case, a repair can be made without removing the crankshaft by cutting a short piece of an new seal and stuffing it into the upper groove where the existing seal end is short. The new piece could be tapped into place firmly with a dowel rod to seat it thoroughly against the existing seal end, then the end of the new piece would be cut flush with the bearing split line. In other words, you're lengthening the defective short seal half so that it butts against the mating seal half in the bearing cap.

In most cases, however, I'd expect that you might not be this lucky and would have to replace the entire seal.

Removing the crankshaft entails quite a bit of disassembly, and the job is much easier if you have an engine stand and can rotate the motor on its back.

To replace just the front seal, you have to pull the harmonic balancer and the timing cover, but in order to pull the timing cover, you have to remove the oil pan, as there are two bolts through the front main bearing cap that thread into the bottom edge of the timing cover mounting flange. These bolts are accessible only from inside the crankcase.

In replacing the front seal, you'll want to check the condition of the outside diameter of the harmonic balancer hub where the oil seal rides. Often there will be a fairly deep groove worn there, which could result in the new seal not sealing correctly. I expect the Chevrolet fix for this problem would be to replace the harmonic balancer, but that could get expensive and could take a while to locate a new one. I'm going to machine the OD of the hub to .060" undersize, then shrink fit a replaceable steel sleeve with a .030" wall thickness onto the hub to restore the OD to the original size. I realize everyone doesn't have a lathe, and to have this done by a shop could cost more that replacing the harmonic balancer. Another alternative would be to install a 1/16" thick spacer, or washer, in the bottom of the seal cavity in the timing cover before pressing in the new seal. This would cause the new seal face to ride 1/16" farther forward on the balancer hub than the previous seal (assuming the new seal dimensions are the same as the old seal). Of course the spacer would have to be custom-machined, so you'd probably be looking at an $80 shop minimum charge there. Perhaps other club members have suggestions on how to deal with a grooved harmonic balancer hub.

Another thing to consider on renewing the front seal is that you really need a centering sleeve when re-installing the timing cover. This sleeve is a close sliding fit on the crankshaft snout and its OD is the same as the harmonic blancer hub. The purpose of the sleeve is to center the seal concentric to the crankshaft. Whithout it, because of the clearance in the timing cover fastening bolt holes, the timing cover could be mounted with the seal slightly off center, which would result in possible seal leakage or short seal life. Once the timing cover is bolted on, the sleeve is removed and the harmonic balancer can be installed. Where do you get the sleeve? I don't know. It's easy enough to make one, but again, your talking about another expensive visit to the machine shop.

Good luck on getting that 216 sealed up. It sure makes keeping everything nice and clean a lot easier.

Mark

Nice detail,thank you

Mark,
Really wonderful tips. Thanks, I have printed them and will place into my Chevy repair book.

Only problem is...HOW WILL THE CAR EVER "MARK ITS SPOT"??
Now my rigs will need to be psychoanalyzed. After all, they have been born and bred to drip oil. I suppose I can find a Chevy stovebolt six head shrink if I look hard enough.

However, when I got my first Chevy in 1955 (a 1940 business coupe) an old mechanic told me that when a Chevy quits dripping oil it is out of oil. How will I know if I am out of oil? I lost the dip stick 30 years ago and have that hole plugged with an old rag. LOL

Thanks again,
Merry Christmas to all.
Bob D.
1927 Coach
1952 Styleline 4 Door Powerglide

Bob,

Not to worry--your Chevrolet will leak, if not from the seals or gaskets, the crankcase vent pipe will drip a few drops after a run. Better hang on to that drip pan.

Mark

One last question on paint. Is a pint enough to paint the engine? Do I reduce the paint (from The Filling Station) and if so, what do I use to reduce it?
Thanks.
Joe

A pint will do one coat if you are frugal. If you spray then a little thinning is best. I just use a paint brush and don't thin at all. Comes out really slick.

Thanks. I think I'll order a quart.
Does it come out smooth when it's brushed on?

If you use a fine bristle brush it comes out great on the cast iron and good on the sheet metal parts (worse if you continue to try to brush it smooth). Spraying on sheet metal is the best but not necessary if you use a good brush and only one stroke.

Thanks!

When I can figure out how post pictures I will send pictures of a 34 1/2 ton 207 engine and a 62 235 ( was blue)to look like a 51. Both paints PPG , one painted 8 years ago , the other painted last week. Both from the Filling station. Each time I was sure I had the right color. You be the judge ! I like both colors there just not the same. Thanks.

To post pictures go to the upper right of this page and click on FAQ, then scroll down to answer # 10.

I'll try to figure it out. Thanks.

Here are some engine paint pictures and a picture of some of my autos. The one on the cart is a '62 235 painted to go in a '51. The other is a '34 half ton 207. Thanks




http://www1.snapfish.com/snapfish/t...SHR/otsi=SALBlink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/

I just painted a 235 with FS paint. I put 1/2 a pint in my hvlp gun and added a little mr185 thinner (PPG ?) to make it sprayable. I put on 2 good coats and had some left over. Thanks.

Well , that turned out just GREAT !

Sorry, the Snapfish post didn't work. If I spent as much time on my car as I did on the computer, I'd have my car done!!

www.picturetrail.com/uid13438706

I saw the paint job ! I meant it turned out GREAT ! lol Kevin

...As for that car/computer thingy...you and me both...

If color in picture is correct top engine is too dark and lower engine is too light.....and the road draft tube is black.

The Filling Station saw the engine paint pictures and are sending me return pickup info for the paint I have left. Steve at the FS said there's a problem some where! See guys I'am not crazy ! I'll just have to keep the hood closed ! Thanks.

PAINT UPDATE ! I sent the remains of paint from my last engine paint job to Steve at the filling station. He has been reading the posts on engine paint and saw my two different engine colors. He was concerned so he called me and asked if I would send him any paint I had left. I did and he compared it with engines at the FS and comfirmed it to be the correct color. My 34 1/2 ton engine is darker than it should be. That paint was adjusted a few years ago so if you buy paint now it is the correct color. Thanks to Steve Kassis and everybody at the Filling station .

While the color may not be 100% correct on my screen it is as close as you can get to correct.

So, the question still remains, where can we get the "right color" paint, like in the previous post??

The engine looks great. I have a 51 and will be painting the engine also. The paint on it now which appears to be original more closely matches your first posting of the darker gray, however if Gene says the latest is correct then thats what I will use.

The Filling Station in Lebanon, Oregon has the correct color engine paint.

Looks Great. I am glad mine ended up the right color also.