VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 ? Broken axle?

Hello, I have a question that I hope someone can answer. How do I know if I have a broken axle in my 1928?

Jack up one wheel and put the car in gear. Turn wheel and observe the drive shaft. If the wheel turns and the driveshaft doesn't, that's your broken axel.If you have a '28 repair manual, go to page 98 for other reasons why the wheels won't move. Good luck.

Thanks for the reply. I am going to have to order a repair manual.Jacked up both rear wheels turned one and the other side turned also. My guess axles are good. The problem is left rear hub is rubbing the U shaped bracket that attach the rear of the brake shoes to the rear of the differential. There is 1/4 inch overhang on the left side hub and only 1/16 on passenger side. This is making a grinding noise. Wheel bearing? Thanks in advance.

Put a shim between the axle and hub. A beer or coke can makes a good shim on most cases. That will move the drum away from the bracket.

Thanks for the info. Do I just remove the cotter pin and nut then remove the hub assy. to install the shim? Just kinda new to this but very thankful for the advise. to get this old girl back on the road. Kinda thought about getting some of the drum taken off to eliminate the problem?? Also have some fuel coming out of the weep hole just above the carb bowl. Just happened after I filled the tank up??

Just remove the cotter pin and nut. If you are lucky you can then pull the wheel off complete with hub and brake drum. This gives you access to the tapered axle end to fit the shim. If you are not lucky and the wheel is stuck, you might need a wheel puller to remove the wheel from the axle taper.

If you do not have a wheel puller, loosening but not removing the axle nut then driving around a couple of curves will usually loosen the hub on the taper if it is stuck.

It's better to fit the shim to return the wheel to its correct location than to reduce the width of the brake drum.

franco

Quite often this is caused by the axle keyway in the hub splitting. There is not much metal from the bottom of the keyway to the outside of the hub and is worse on the end of a disc wheel hub than a wooden wheel hub.
If this is the case a shim won't work as the axle hub will keep opening up in the split causing the wheel to creep further along the split and you will need to replace the whole hub.
I hope that it is not split, good luck
Chris

Another alternative is to remove the axle shaft,remove the bearing lock,locknut and bearing.Then machine up a steel spacer and place it against the shoulder on the axle the bearing butts up to.Replace the bearing,lock ring & locknut,then refit to the car.replace the axle,and you'll see that the axle taper has been moved out from its original postion.Replace the wheel and the inside edge of the drum should now clear the rear brake anchor peg that's rivetted to the backing plate.

Chris,

Ufortunately, I think that you are probably right about the cause of the problem. I have half a dozen spare back hubs, which are all cracked, and I don't think welding them is feasible. I think it's just a bad bit of design. There is no reason (other than cost) why the outside of the hub could not have been made a slightly bigger diameter to avoid this.

I did salvage a cracked one a while ago by making a steel sleeve which was a medium/heavy press fit on the hub, and about 16mm bigger diameter, and turned the hub end of the spokes out to suit. This constrains the outer end of the hub taper from spreading and loosening the wheel on the taper, and the crack on the inner end of the taper always seems to stop at or before the hub flange, so I expect this will be a satisfactory repair. I'm not recommending this, and think it would be fairly expensive to have done commercially, but it's better than no hub at all!

Frank.

Thanks for all the info guys! I was able to remove the hub and found that the key was worn badly. Replaced i with a new 1/4 inch key 3.5 inches long. It gave me the clearance I needed. Have not taken it for a spin yet. Again thanks for all the great tips. Ill let you know how it worked out.

TIFFIN,

Did you also shim the taper? Replacing a worn key is an excellent idea, but it should not affect the distance the hub goes onto the axle taper unless something else (like shimming the taper) has changed.

There should be a small clearance between the top of the key and the bottom of the hub keyway. If the hub is not now going as far onto the taper as it was previously, the hub is probably riding up on the new key, either because the key is too long and is being pushed up at the inner end where the keyway runs out, (the most likely cause), or the key is not seating properly in the bottom on the axle or hub keyway, or the key is slightly oversize.

If you did not shim the taper or make some other change than replacing the key, it would pay to check the fit of the key in the keyways before the hub works loose and possibly damages one of the tapers.

Frank.

Do you think that the 3.5 inch key is too long? How much play should i have in the key way (just a wiggle) side to side and up and down. I have not driven it yet. I probably will tear it back down and try the shim. Should the shim go all the way around the taper and as wide as the hub or not so much? Thanks so much for the advise while i figure out this problem!

Thanks I think I will give it a try! Thanks for the tips. Do these repairs last a while on just a alum.shim?

TIFFIN,

You did check that there was no sign of a crack running outwards from one of the the corners of the inner end of the hub keyway ?

Ideally there should be no sideways movement of the key in the axle keyway at all. When everything was new, the key would probably have needed to be lightly tapped down in the axle keyway to seat it. Things do wear a bit after 80 odd years though. A small amount of sideways play in the key should not be a problem if the hub is seating properly on the axle taper and the nut on the axle kept tight. Just watch when refitting the hub that it does not push the key up towards the inner end of the keyway where the depth decreases.

It is best if the shim covers as much of the axle taper where it will be inside the hub as possible - the more bearing surface the better. Provided the hub taper is a good match for the one on the axle so there is no movement between the hub and axle, the aluminium shim will work OK, but I would be inclined to make one from a steel can or even brass shim stock myself.

I don't have a spare key handy to measure the length, but if the outer end of the key is flush with the shoulder at the end of the thread on the axle, the inner end of the key should not quite reach the point where the depth of the keyway in the axle starts to decrease.

Frank.

Pulled it back apart,no visual cracks in the hub.Shortened the key to 3 inches and installed the shim to the inside of the hub. Seems to be alot better than just the new key. Thanks again to all you guys.Will let you know how things work out when I get my carb back from the shop.

Just an FYI: Steel tapered shims can be obtained from model A & T Fo*d supply houses.

Thanks for the info!You guys are really helpful!

Just a update! Shim seems to be just the ticket. Took it for a spin today after I got the carb back. Just probably need to keep eye on axle nut tightness. Thanks again everyone for the great info.This is a great site!!!

Several of us and also other VCCA members have made that "fix" successfully in the past.