VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 To paint or not to paint...

I know there's no right or wrong answer to this, and it really comes down to personal preference and money. But I thought some of you probably faced this before and would appreciate some feedback:

My '36 Chevy Master is almost ready for installation of the interior. Inside is completely stripped, doors are off for wood re-build, floor is de-rusted and painted with POR-15, and I have a new Hampton Coach complete interior kit ready to go. My question is, since I've gone this far, why not pull the body from the frame and have it stripped and painted?
I don't necessarily want an award winning show car, but certainly want to eventually bring it back to it's original condition.

The body is in great shape (no rust-through, no dents). The paint is fair to good. The original black paint was repainted a navy metallic blue, and it's shiny, and pretty decent quality paint. But they didn't take it down to bare metal, and there are lots of bubbles and paint chips. A couple are as large as 4 inches across. What I plan to do is some touch-up for now. The weather is getting nice and I want to enjoy driving it.

But I've read that if you're going to do it right, pull the body from the frame, paint fenders, doors, hood, trunk separately. And do it before putting in new upholstery. Do you think it's possible for a good paint shop to do a quality job without removing the interior and pulling the body if I decide to paint later? Or, is it reasonable for me to remove the interior later without ruining it? Good idea or bad idea?

Finally, anybody have an idea what a good prime and paint should cost if I strip the old paint myself and there's no body work to do? This will probably make the final decision for me. I've talked with a custom painter in Pennsylvania who does lots of show cars and his price was $10K. He'll drop $1K if I strip it myself. I assume that's the top end. Any idea what it would cost if I'm somewhere between this guy and Maaco? Thanks for any input you can provide.

My suggestion would be to leave the body on the frame...Due to the wood construction the body framing could loosen up more by removing by removing it from the frame causing various misalignment ptoblems.I would remove the fenders, hood etc when it is repainted.

..You did mention Maaco, I have seen fairly decent paint jobs from them on other VCCA members' old cars (late 20s and early 30s) after all you don't want a paint job like you see on highly modified customized cars...Do you? sometimes they don't quite match the paint color that was requested.

This should confuse you even more, but my vote is to pull the body and do your restoration correctly. Also, I would get rid of the POR-15 too!

On the paint, the $10,000 price quoted you is about right and it is not on the high end either. In my neck of the woods quality paint work on full restorations runs between $8,000 and $20,000, depending upon what type of paint job you want. On the Maaco paint, if you want your wheelbarrow painted then take it to them, otherwise do a quality paint job. Your old car will love you for it!!

agree with the dawg. mike

Since you have gone this far it would be easier and cheaper (less stuff to mask off or protect from overspray) to repaint it now.

Also I think you would regret it later, you said "...there are lots of bubbles and paint chips. A couple are as large as 4 inches across." this means that you have some rust starting and a 'touch-up' might or might not get all of it.

Once you start down the path of restoring a car you tend to want to keep doing it right after spending that much time and money on the project. At least this is what happens to me when I start on one...

Preping the car for paint yourself is a cost saver, but it is a lot of work...I have also seen people do this and if they don't know what they are doing they can sand dips and waves into the surface. Don't forget to follow the safety rules when sanding or blasting also.

Others on this site with a lot more experience and knowledge can advise you about what type of paint or system to use. I have been told that on an older car like yours you should not use a clear coat over the color coat, it looks closer to the original paint w/o the clear.

Check out the painter and some of the cars he has painted, talk with some of his past customers...I have learned this lesson the hard (and costly) way.

Good luck with the car and happy motoring.

JYD,
What is it that you don't like about the POR-15, as long as the heavy rust has been removed beforehand?
Randy

There is nothing wrong with POR products that can't be solved by placing them is a hazard waste receptical. If they have a purpose in the shop, I haven't found it.

Raymondo about said it all! I place PRO-15 right down there with Rust-Oleum! Would never use either product. :eek: :eek: :( :( :(

POR is a single component polyurethane. Being moisture cured it has some advantages over two stage and other single stage paints. It is much better than Rustoleum and other paints intended to cover metal that is oil/grease free but may still have some hydrated iron oxide (rust) present. If top coated while still sticky with a good quality enamel gives a good chip and UV resistant surface. It is not as using a good as a clean, high surface area (blasting or etching or both) with a two component urethane or epoxy on a frame or other mechanical components but much better than several alternatives. The early formula did not have good UV resistance which has been improved in the later formula.

I don't understand why some people seem to have a prejudice against POR 15. If used properly it can be a good product for some applications.

I don't really have a prejudice against POR-15. For tarring a roof on a house I think that it's great! Beyond that, anyone that wants a professional high quality job wouldn't use the stuff.

At one of my senior moments I purchased a 1915 F * * D Runabout that had been coated on the bottom with POR. It had the same look as a vehicle that had been painted with a mop. I tried to remove the stuff and it was too much of a challenge. Sold the rig to keep from seeing it in the shop.

I've actually had good experience with POR-15 so far. I admit that the first time I used it on the floor of the trunk, it looked great at first, certainly better than my first try with (Ugh) Rustoleum. But I left the trunk open in the sun, and I wasn't using the UV protected variety. It started to blister badly. After resanding it, and coating it with the UV protectant version of POR, the finish came out beautifully and stayed that way. I also had great luck painting the outside of the gas tank with the non-UV type. It resulted in a mirror-like finish. These were all clean, nearly rust-free surfaces that were positioned flat. It does tend to run, so you have to catch them quickly.

From my limited experience with it, I'm guessing that since it's moisture cured, both humidity and temperature can greatly affect how fast/slow it dries, and hence the quality of the final finish. I had a much better finish when it dried more slowly in a humidity-temperature controlled shop. Also, since it's put on with a brush, if it dries too fast, you'll leave lots of brush lines. I decided to use it on areas that are not easily visible (like under the carpet), because I thought the durability would be a good thing. If it doesn't come out right though, it's very tough to remove.
Randy

Quote:"If used properly it can be a good product for some applications"

I agree with Chipper.

You folks now have me worried and so I have a few questions.

First let me say that I had my 35 Master frame steel-grit blasted. Then I pickled it with phospohoric acid, rinsed it with lots of water and dried it using a hot air gun to get all of the moisture out of the joints. Then I appied POR-15, using a brush. It did not leave noticable brush marks. It has a satin finish. This was all a year ago. The chassis is now all together and I am working on the body.

The questions:
How long ago was the formulation changed to handle UV?
Is UV a concern for the frame?
Have any of you used the "primer" and finish satin black paint offered by the same company to coat POR-15 that has cured?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Jim,I've heard this discussion many times,I used the POR-15 primer and top coat although I did spray both and it still looks real good.I think Eastwood sold me on the product?I was looking for durability and I think it was accomplished,chef-

Chef, I doubt that Eastwood sold you the POR15. They have their own rust-encapulation mix. I do know you don't want to get POR15 on anything you don't want it to stay on! I know several really knowledgeable restorers that like it and they are also guys I highly respect the work they do. It must be used in a different manner than regular enamel or epoxy paints.

POR15 has a web site, and if anyone wants more info than "...it is a hazardous waste" and it "....has no place in the shop." then maybe you should buy some or visit the site.

I suppose I should add,I used all their preparation products also as stated in the direction and on their site"4-step process"including their
U-V resistant top coat,chef-

Cool! If you like the stuff and you enjoy using it, then stick with it. Myself I won't use POR-15 on anything. I have a friend of mine that is a professional body man and the cars that he turns out are extremely high quality, and his paint jobs reflect his art as well. At any rate, he won't even allow POR-15 in his shop. I guess it's all a matter of taste, preference, and the type of quality that you want.

As long as we're picking sides I'll vote for using POR-15. I'm a hobbyist, not a professional restorer and I've used it on my '35 with good results in areas where it isn't practical or feasible to grit blast parts to a completely rust-free condition. I used it on my chassis and where there was rust it holds up well. I think it may need an oxidized or roughened finish to adhere well.
Just don't get it on your skin or parts where you don't want paint! It will be on them for a very long time.

You have just pinpointed one of the major objections to POR-15.

Very true....Ray. I also understand POR15 has a six month max shelf life, won't thin with anything but the expensive POR15 thinner,that once a can is opened and the stuff gets in the valley of the can and the lid is replace it is glued on forever, you have to punch a hole in the lid to get any more out. Other than a bunch of freaky things it is fine!

I saw a picture of a fine old Chevrolet that had the door open (new interior) when the owner dropped a full 1 gallon can of black POR15 a foot from the door, the can lid popped off and POR15 completely sprayed and ruined the interior of the 32. NOTHING would even touch the stuff, it completely ruined the guy's Day, Week, month and a couple of years, not to mention his hair skin and clothes!

How about powdercoating the frame instead of Por or other paint?

BigBob, That is my idea, I have seen a 55 done with powder coat and it looks great. I wonder about the average restoration attempt without removing the body from the chassis, that is where POR15 seems to be seeing a lot of use, body on attempts.I was doing my 51 belair that way, sandblasted everything that was reachable, now after several years of messing around I will do a body off or sell the thang.....

If I knew then what I know now, I think I would spend the extra bucks and powder coat Sweetie Pie\'s frame.