VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION VCCA Judging Questions Engine Rebuild and HPCOF Certification Question

Howdy All,

I did not want to hijack the previous post on HPOCF certification, if I should have posted there then I apologize for the extra topic.

My 1931 Special Sedan received it's HPOCF certification this past week at the 47th Central Meet (Proud Papa syndrone... sorry...). At the time the engine already had an issue with rod knock which I attempted to fix while there to some success, those who were there will testify to the greasiness of the situation.

I looked through the judging manual and the HPOCF judging form and did not find an answer to my question (maybe I just did not understand since I am very new to this) which is, if I rebuild the engine with new bearings (I am considering having the mains cut to accept insert bearings) and new pistons (aluminum just to help the engine run better as I drive this car a fair amount), then I have I affected the originality of the engine to the point that the car is no longer certifiable? Will I have to return the Oval the car received?

The bearing job will definitely have to be done in the near future because unfortunately these things never get better in my experience (limited that it may be...).

I appreciate any thoughts or opinions on the situation.

Thanks in advance,

Rusty Berg

Internal repairs and internal "improvements" inside of the engine will not eleminate the engine compartment from being certified.
Repainting the engine and its "bolt-ons" will. Was the engine compartment certified? very few 1931's will have enough original engine paint remaining - so will never get certified.
Your main bearings already have inserts, The rods have the babbit "attached" directly to the rod rather than having the babbit applied to an insert.
Your car can be certified in four areas. To get an oval in must pass in at least two areas.

As Chev Nut stated, your engine already has main bearing inserts that are removable. Your engine came from the factory with inserted bearings.

Mr Dog Sir,

I did not know that the bearings were removable (and it would be best for me to learn more about this before I go forward as I assumed the bearings were a f*#d style poured directly into the block...) I had adjusted the shims with the engine and crank still in the car so I did not know that the top portion of the bearing (under the crank) was removable. In the near future I had intended to put the engine on the stand and start the work on the bearings. Guess I really should read the service manual and news before I go shooting my mouth off.

Chev nut,

As to the engine bay, I need to get my judging sheet back, however I believe it was certified as "original" in the fact that no changes had been made and that the motor was original to the car even though there was no paint on the engine left. I could be incorrect as this was my first judging experience.

I appreciate your guys thoughts and wisdom on the matter.

Rusty Berg

The teams I have been on for certifing original areas would have not certified an engine comparment unless at least a good part of the original paint was still on the engine and it's accessories. To be certified up to 25 % of the engine (or its accessories) can be repainted.
Note that your connectings rods are also adjusted by removing shims and its more common for them to be loose.
Also the the oil pockets above the main bearings. The oil is pumped up to each pccket and then gravity fed to the bearing through a small hole. The front and rear main bearings also feed #1 and #6 connecting rod.
The crabkshaft would need to be removed to replace the top main bearings....and then line boring would be required.
You were not "shooting your mouth off" but rather still in the "learning curve". I would get a shop manual from the Filling Station ....plus some of the other manuals and Service News that they offer.

Yep, it's great idea to get your hands on every piece of literature that you can regarding your '31 and digest all of it before doing work of any kind on your car or your engine. Most of the stuff is just basic common sense and the technology is pretty primitive by todays standards. However, it sure makes things a lot easier knowing about different aspects of your engine and etc. before you start work...that way you will know what to expect when you get there.

When I was a novice, that's how I started and by reading all of the literature that I could get my hands on sure helped immensely. And, many of my questions were answered by reading the literature that I had in my collection as well.

Good luck with your project!

Most of the HPOCF teams that I have been on also considered the engine paint to be a significant part of the engine compartment. I have disagreed as it is only the coating on the engine. In surface area the engine does represent a significant percentage but if you consider the mass then it is very insignificant percentage. I personally think that having the correct block, head, manifolds, water pump, generator, starter, etc. is far more representative of what is original then the paint on the engine.

I had a chance to look over your car at the Central Meet it's very original, You'll need to see your HPOCF certification to see if the judges agree motor is original , my take on it is yes. The one photo I have of the motor shows a very nice patina but doesn't look as if there is any paint left. ( not sure how to post Photo or I would) Based on what Gene said, this might not qualify that area. I have two cars which only certify in 2 areas. Internal repairs are ok, but avoid detailing and painting if they did certify the engine bay I have quite a few photos of Rusty car, very nice original piece Chipper is correct original block & part important, but starters, etc are considered a maintenance item and ok to replace and still certify Rusty your also a great MC , we'll be seeing you again in the spotlight!