VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1946-1948 Torque tube Questions

I want to swap out my '47 torque tube assembly with a '53 powerglide torque tube assembly gears and all. What manuals can I get to help with this?

I don't want to miss any details.

The 1947 shop manual would be all you will need for the swap.
Things you will need to study. . How to pull the axle shafts (just slide them out several inches, full removal is not necessary if you are not replacing the axle seals), Disconnecting the U joint (support torque tube so it dosen't fall down on you). Lower torque tibe slowly. Unbolt the torque tube and center carrier form the rear axle banjo housing and pull fprward. The "gears" and all will pull right out as a unit.

Gene, do you know if the rear axle is the same for the passenger car and the 1/2-ton in the Advance Design years? And if not is the dissasembly procedure the same for both of them?
It's been almost 50 years since I've been under a passenger car of this era. However, I have been spending a lot of time the last few years under the AD trucks.
Tks
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

The car and 1/2 ton truck are bascially the ame except the 1/2 ton truck parts are slightly larger (more heavy-duty). Most bearings interchange but not gears.

Thanks Gene, that's pretty much what I figured other wise everyone would be looking for gears out of the passenger cars to replace their 4.10 in stead of flocking to Patrick's. I was just curious whether there were any similarities between them or interchangeability of maybe the housings, backing plates and torque tubes, u-joints, etc. I’m aware of course that the early AD’s had Huck brakes.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny, that brings up a question that I had. Will the 3 speed transmission also need to be swapped if you try to put the entire 53 powerglide rearend and torque tube into a 52 1/2 ton Chevy truck? I already have a 54 truck 235 engine and clutch and a 54 3 speed automobile transmission in the car that I will be robbing the complete driveline out of I am changeing the 53 driveline completely to a low mileage 54 standard transmission set that I came across. Will the bell joint from a powerglide and a bell joint from a 3 speed car innerchange on the torque tube? The 52 truck that I have in mind is located a couple of hours away.
maybe I didn't make the swap clear enough. I want to put a 1953 powerglide rear end, brakes and all and a 53 three speed transmission into a truck with no driveline, it just has a 54 235 truck engine and truck clutch in it now. I will need to use the springs from a car also.

I'm sure you weren't aiming that question at me Mack, you know that's way out of my league, hope Gene can answer your question.
Denny G

The passenger car transmission will not bolt up to a truck bell housing.
The 1953-54 car main shaft is 5/8" longer than a truck main shaft.
The car torque tube and carrier is 59 1/2 " long, the truck is 62 9/16" long.
The car carrier wll not bolt up to a truck banjo housing.
The car banjo housing is narrower than a truck's.
The U joint, ball, etc, can be matched up.

Great info Gene, as usual I really appreciate the time your take and thanks a bunch. I'll add that to the file for sure.
Hope you have a great 2010,
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Thanks Gene! That is what I needed!

Thanks for the input. Great info.

Will these changes affect speedometer or odometer accuracy?

With the 3.55 PG ratio the speedometer and odometer will be 15 % slow. You can figure this out on the speedometer or purchase an adaptor the will correct the readings. They run about $70.00 but are very simple to install.

How far do I have to take the u-joint apart to be able to drop the torque tube? I've been refering to the shop manual and all the help from you guys, but I can't get enough clearance to lower the torque tube. Right now I removed the 4 bolts from the u-joint and removed the two bearings those bolts hold in place.
The center carrier is unbolted and ready for removal.

If the 4 bolts are removed you can slide the rear half of the U joint back into the torque enough to allow the torque to drop down. The center carrier must not be puled out at all at this point as it "closes" the space between the two halves of the U joint.

Remove the emergency brake bracket and actuating rod.
Loosen the friction ring (screws onto the rear of the ball joint behind the transmission), THEN remove the 4 bolts that hold the ball joint to the rear of the transmission..Clean the small part of the torque tube, and slide the rear ball joint back on the torque tube as far as it will go. Now you have access to the Universal joint, part ift by removeing the small trunnion screws, then the torque tube can be dropped down to be removed from the rearend case. If you don't know how to do this job, study the shop manual and the directions for removal of the torque tube.

One thing not mentioned when dropping torque tube, and that is that drive shaft has to be turned a certain way to clear the tranny cross member. That cross member has a half moon cutout on bottom plate of cross member to clear the u-joint after it has been unbolted and slid backward. You will have to jack up rear end to rotate drive shaft.

Just a thought.

Jim.

Thanks Mr Mack and Chev Nut, I have tried all you're instructions along with the shop manual handy. I can't get it out. As for jdv123 I haven't been able to get the tube low enough to worry about the cross-member yet. I was wondering if the angle of the car on jacks is making a difference? Right now I have the car level or maybe the front end higher than the rear. I appreciate the input from you guys, I might have to look into another plan if I can't get it out after another shot at it shortly.

Support the rear end of the car by the frame and let the differential hang down. This gives you a few inches of clearance.

That's the way I've had it all along, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong?

This is the way I did it.

Jack up rear of car with jack under differential.

Put one jack stand under each axle housing spaced out toward wheels.

Lower jack under differential and remove.

Now, make SURE you have hydraulic jack avail because when you take torque tube down, it will want to fall to floor!! Put jack under torque tube to hold it from falling, as it is heavy with weight pulling it down.

Make sense?? I am not exactly a weakling, but gurantee you, that sucker is heavy, wanting to twist downward.

Best to you, and be careful!!

Jim.

I failed to tell you that I had rear wheels about 4 to 6 inches off floor as that gave me extra room under car to work.

Also use catch pan under u joint area to catch grease coming out of that area as you lower torque tube assy.

Sorry.

Jim.

Alright guys, I tried a little bit more then took the extra steps to remove the rearend completely. It may sound excessive but I figured if it's this problematic coming out it's going to be worse going in. So I figured it might make things easier during the install... we'll see! Thanks again for all the input.

I ordered a "torque tube ball seal kit" from chevs of the 40's and the kit had 4 exactly the same gaskets. It's the gasket between the tranny and the outer housing, the flat gasket with the four bolt holes in it. What's the reason for 4 of them?

Chevrolet called them shims and not gaskets. The correct number must be used to insure a proper fit of the ball. With the proper number of shims the ball should move up and down with just a little "drag" and the adjustment is made before the U joint is installed. You may need 1 or 6.

Check out your shop manual. It should describe the proper adjustment of the universal joint ball using the shims.

Thanks again guys, I always forget about the shop manual.

What is the name of this part and where can I find them?

Any help?

Any speedometer repair shop (if there are still any around near you) should be able to put one together for you. One shop I used locally has all the parts in house and will put one together in the same day. They just need the reduction factor ( in this case 15%).

Thanks, I'll start my search for a speedometer shop.

I've done a couple of these torque tube swaps and I think it's much easier to support the frame and pull the entire rear end. Also if you just support the car at the rear axle, the axle will pivot when you remover the torque tube. Also I ran my 46 half ton for a long time with the passenger car torque tube (3:55 ratio)just need to swap the entire tube, axle assy as mentioned none of the truck rear end parts will work in a passenger car. What allows this swap to work is that the drive shaft splines at the trans of the passenger is same as the pickup. Also keeping 6 lug wheels with this swap, first stick the 54 torque tube into a 48 or older rear axle to keep 6 lug.

Fleetboy,
Adjustment of the "bell" so that it will flex with a tad of drag. A single gasket may cause a stiff drag while all of them may be too loose. Use them as required to obtain some drag but not too much. Just use good judgment or the manual as a guide.
Good luck,
Charlie

Fleetboy,
Please disregard my reply. I didn't notice that there was page 2 and that your question had been answered with proper advice.
Charlie

I am getting ready to swap my 4:10 gears in my 47 for a 3:73 set from an early 50's car.I have read all the posting about swaping the torgue tube/carrier assembly. Can I swap the ENTIRE rear end assembly, put the axles from the 47 in the newer one to retain 6 bolt pattern ?

Also, How is the "Oakie Bushing" different from the original and how did it get that name? I'm not clear on what to order and what to do to use the Oakie. I assume you have to remove the old bushing first ??

Msg for Chevgene: Would like to contact you via phone if you are receptive to that. Lv msg with # & hrs if so. Thanks.
msg

When I did some resealing on torque tubes, I went to a local hydralic shop and picked up a 3 IN or so, 3/16 or 1/4 wall dia O ring for the ball to retainer seal. Seems to be much better than the original cork composit seal.

You don't happen to remember the exact size or the Parker Mil Spec number for the "O" ring do you?

I think that several years back JYD posted the specifications for the one that can be used on the early six torque tubes.

No I do not. I took the flange looking thing (retainer) and the ball thing (these are the two things that have to be interface sealed with the O ring) to a local hydralic shop and they ffound one that fit perfectly. They had a wall full of them. As for the flange to transmission seal/shims, you can cut your own or purchase from Chevy's of the 40s.
the seal in the ring nut can be tightened or repacked with almost anything like large diameter cotton string or if you want to do it up real good get some packing material which is getting difficult to find now days.

Mack,
I use a 340 90 durometer o-ring. Get them from Motion Industries in Oyster Creek, TX in a two pack Motion number 00621077. They also have different quantities under different part numbers.

Discription below from McMaster Carr

AS568A Dash Number 340
Type O-Ring
O-Ring Type Standard
Cross Section Shape Round
System of Measurement Inch
Width 3/16"
Inside Diameter 3-3/8"
Outside Diameter 3-3/4"
Material Buna-N
Color Black

Thanks Chipper that is the info I needed,
I just stop in a Halliburton shop and pick the right ones off their "O" ring board, they use a heck a lot of "O" rings! It is easier if I have the right numbers, I gotta be quick or they will want "something" for them, know what I mean?

In my case it would be cause I would screw up the first 3.

A friend of mine transplanted the torque tube and prop shaft from a 1/2 ton pickup into a 54 Powerglide rear axle. The tubes are the same diameter as long as you use one from a 1951-54 pickup to the carrier on a 1951-54 Pass car. He shrank the tube slightly by soaking it in ice than drove it into the passenger car housing. He spot welded it in a couple of places to make sure it stayed put,

Please bare with me if some of you read this post for a second time.
I know this is an old topic but I should like to confirm that I manage to install a 53 Chevy torque tube/prop.shaft/diff.assy with 3,7 gears in my 48 Fleetmaster using my original axle. It went without any problems and I am very happy with the results. .
For people who have lots of work space a bridge and a strong assistant it can be done very easy in an afternoon.
Tip: start with sodas and drink the bears after the installation.
Note: I first was considering a 3,55 ratio but after all I went for the 3,7 the reason been that if I should ever make a road trip with high mountains I should miss the extra torque for climbing and I can always use a 2 inch smaller diameter wheels to get near the original ratio. On the other hand as I am doing for now I am using 2,5 inch larger diameter wheels so I have an amazing 20% gain and I can cruise an easy 60 to 65 Mph at 2500/2600 rpm.
If you have any questions feel free to ask.

http://s875.photobucket.com/albums/ab317/Jianis/53%20Torque%20tube%20and%20gears%20instalation/

Jianis

If you decide to get some more speed and less RPM buy a set of oversize tires, one size over original will make for a nice smooth ride and the speedometer can be reset in your mind by using a good GPS with speedometer.

MrMack

I have got a set of 700x16 tires instead of the original 670x15. That is already an almost 9% improvement.
I made some calculation and made a sticker ring that goes on the glass of the speedometer. At the first attempt I corrected the indications with the help of my GPS speedometer and today I made a new sticker with the correct values. If all goes well I will make a test drive tomorrow.

http://s875.photobucket.com/albums/...instalation/Speed%20corection%20Sticker/

Here in the Netherlands someone is making an electronic /electro-mechanical speedometer adapter that someone can easily adjust to any ratio. so you do not need to change to a new adapter every time you change the tire size.The only problem is that it is on the expensive side so I guess I have to start saving.

Jianis

Great! It looks like you have your stuff together!

From looking at your "photobucket" I'll assume your going with kilometer's per hour...? Since that does appear to be the standard in your neck of the woods....

Kevin

You are right. The Speedometers here show in Kilometer at least the ones on cars that were imported when new.There are lots of American cars that came later that they use Miles.
My 48 was assembled in Belgium and came with Kilometers.
I am searching now for the last 18 years for a speedometer with Kilometers for my other 48 but no luck so far.
Mind you its only a dozen cars of that era ( 42 -48 ) hare in the Netherlands

Jianis

If you already have a KM speedometer can you duplicate the face to put into your other '48 speedometer? My understanding is that is the only difference, as the internals and gearing is the same.

With Photoshop and digital camera making a decal or overlay should not be too expensive or difficult.

The idea is to use the speedometer on my other 48 car. Its own speedometer was so badly vandalized by kids that only the shell is left.
I have already a reserve speedometer,in miles, that I am planing to modify exactly the way you mention. The only reason I am looking one in Kilometers is that the counter will also record kilometers instead of miles.
Its hard to describe my second *Fleetmaster* so I better let you see a couple of photos. Its back home in Greece and its gone be my eventual retirement project.

http://s875.photobucket.com/albums/ab317/Jianis/Chevy48%20Fleetmaster%20truck/

The appropriate name for it should rather be *Frankenstein Senior*

Jianis

Denny,
Sorry I don't have answers to your questions, but is your '47 three-speed transmission for sale? If so, what condition is it in and how much would you sell it for?

Best of luck with your project,
Roy

Denny,

Please excuse my question about you transmission. After reading your question more thoroughly I realize you're not replacing the transmission with the '53 Powerglide.

Regards,
Roy

Did you ever swap the gears & etc for ypour 47 from a 53?? I want to do the same. And did you get any good info? I found a 53 rear that has a automatic in it.

FWIW, In '54 & '55 I had a very good '47 club coupe. A friend stuffed a '51 3.55 (automatic) ring & pinion in it. As a result, I had a ball with it. Granted, it was just a bit slow off the line til it rolled a few feet. Then, it was OK. However, it ran much faster in low and 2nd and did a fine job in 3rd. Naturally, the speedo was off (which never bothered me). Top end was amazing for a 216,

Being young and insane, I drove that ol' 216 hard as it would go. It never complained. At that time, I didn't know about the 3.70 '53 & '54 gearing. Looking back, perhaps a 3.70 might have been a better combination than the 3.55 (?). I sure had fun with the 3.55 gear (incidently, that includes Signal Mountain)!

I'm betting if you put the '53 3.55 in your Chevy you'll never regret it. If I could find a good 3.55 or 3.70 near Chattanooga, I'd be on it quick to go in my '41.

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I have a 47 StyleMaster with the 4.11 rear end and I want to put a 3.55 in it. I have a line on a rear axle center + torque tube from a 50-54 powerglide car. Can I swap in the 3.55 ring & pinion gears only, or do I have to change the torque tube, too?
John

Motor, I've only been here a short time but I suppose I can say, "Welcome".

IMHO, the best, easiest way to go is to use the later PG rear gear assy with the later torque tube & drive shaft still attached to it. That way, it is a simple swap. You might do a search. There is a lot of info on such swaps here.

You'll love the higher rear gear ratio! Wish I could find a good one within 100 miles of Chattanooga for the '41.

Thanks Gaither. I'll make sure I pick up the entire assembly. I'm looking forward to cruising comfortably at 60+ without straining the engine.
John

John, if you haven't already, you might go over the 3 pages of this thread - lots of good info here. A "search" will get you even more info. These good guys know their Chevy stuff.

I'd sure put a 3.55 or 3.70 in my '41, if I could find one nearby. Let us know how you come out.

Good luck!

Gaither,
Yes, there is a wealth of good info in this forum.
To give you an update, I acquired a 3.55:1 rear end off Ebay and had it shipped via Greyhound bus from Iowa to Michigan. It was the center section plus the torque tube. The guys who are helping me with my car have installed it but the car isn't driveable yet so we'll have to wait for that report. I have to wait for the weather up here to break anyway. I'll let you know how it runs once we get it on the road.
John W.

John, thanks for the update. Folks here will be interested in your results (which will be good).

I haven't shipped by Greyhound in years so I am courious. Did you have to crate or package the torque tube & gearset or did they take it "bare"? Was the cost expensive?

I'm looking for a '55, '56 or '57 3.70 (stick shift) Chevy rearend (or even a 4.11). 'Makes me wonder if bus would be a good shipper for it.

Thanks

Gaither

Gaither,
The Ebay seller did a nice job packaging the entire torque tube and center rear axle in cardboard for shipping. It wasn't cheap - shipping cost was around $120. I was considering making the trip from Detroit to Iowa to pick it up myself, but it would have cost me 2 days time + gas + hotel, so I wouldn't have saved any money that way. The Greyhound web site has more info, including online shipping quotes: www.shipgreyhound.com

John

John - Thanks much.

Gaither

HI
i have a 48 stylemaster and just purchased a 235 to swap the engine
if i get a 53/54 auto torque tube can i keep the 3 speed manual?
i want to be able to get on the highway and cruise at 65/75 speeds

thanks

Yes you can use the later torque tube with your 1948 transmission. You will notice that the torque tube is larger in diameter, a 1951 improvement.