VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Gov Cash for Used Cars Program

According to media reports the so-called "Cash for Clunkers" program is destroying a lot of used cars that could give people with lesser income years of good use. The government is also destroying the future "1941 Chev Coupes."

It now looks like it is going to cost us $3-5 billion to destroy these cars, all of whom must be in running condition to even quality for the program.

However, putting that aside, there is a video on U-Tube that shows them destroying the engine in a perfectly good Volvo (it even has a great looking set of rims and only 1 dent to be seen).

www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo

Does anyone know what they are putting in the engine and what exactly it does to the engine?

Dr David, if you go to that web site and look at the right side bar for other videos there is one there that is called "Episode 165". This one tells you that they are draining the oil and then putting in "sodium silicate" then running the engine at 2000 RPM. It took less than two minutes to freeze up the engine in that video compared to the Volvo clip. Hope this answeres your question.

On an other forum I frequent, a tech at a dealer is saying they are having a heck of time with the sodium silicate and are using brake lathe filings to seize the engines. Either way, engines are destroyed.

Thanks Sol & Shawng.

That tells me what they are using. Now, exactly what does the chemical do to the engine to make it "freeze" and become "junk?"

As and aside, I suspect I could find the answer if I looked at enough of the U-Tube videos, however, quite frankly it makes me sick to see perfectly good engines (and cars) being destroyed when low-income people could use them to get to back and forth to work or take their families to a park on a Sunday. The next thing we will be told is we need more tax money for public transportation because there are not enough low-priced used cars for sale.

I am sure glad that in the 50's Ike didn't do this and destroy 1941 Chevs.

David, If you look up Sodium Silicate on Google you can read a lot about it. In a nut shell when the engine heats up the sodium siicate turns into glass. It sticks to everything that is hot in the engine. I guess the it fills in every nook and cranny that there is. I think that you could put a lot of man hours in an engine to try to make it run again. After they freeze the engine do they then crush the car?

Thanks Sal. I knew it was a major part of glass and your answer makes sense.

Yes, as I understand the program once the engine is destroyed the cars go to a junkyard where they are crushed.

This is exactly what some BIG brand laser copier comps. were caught doing to their toners to destroy the barrel and prevent any refill or reuse of the toner. It is sand (glass) and will do what sand paper would do. They faced legal actions.

It is absolutely no surprise to me to see such ignorance and blatant wastefulness (in these lean times) from the ones who always have too much. As said before there are many who could have really benefited from the use of those cars most of which had nothing wrong with them.
I hate to see anything get wasted.

But you are forgetting about the billions of gallons of gas the new and more efficient models will save.

And by the way, that isn't government cash, that is OUR CASH...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

AHHHHH.... Yes ..... now we can pay $5.00 gal for gas and we won't even notice it. Thank goodness they are looking out for us and have our best interest at heart. God bless em!

Sorry but you don't understand the new green earth agenda. "prohibit drilling and producing all of those old nasty fossil fuels... go to sun and wind power, so what sun and wind won't power a car, that is fine...Ween the American people of using gas and oil, The only way to do this is to eliminate as many gasoline engined cars and trucks boats tractors and lawnmowers, as possible. We live in the huge metropolitian areas, we have the votes, with all of our folks voteing two or theee times and all of our dead friends voteing. We don't need cars anyway, we have mass transit and besides we don't need to go anywhere unless we ride the train or plane. We need their taxes is all we need from them, well maybe a little fresh produce and chicken and eggs.
We have heard all the stories and seen the TV shows with all of those rednecks driveing those gas guzzleing dualie pickups and waste all of OUR natural resources. Put those rednecks a foot and see how they like that. CRUSH'EM!

From what I have heard on local boob-tube, the idea of destroying the engs is to make sure that these gas guzzlers are not used again rendering this program worthless.

I understand that engs and trannys are pulled, but salvage yards are allowed to sell some parts off the bodies but don't
know what those parts would be.

Curious enough to take my 96 F-150 with 81k on it, needing a ton of work done to it, in to the local dealers to see what this is all about. Will let you know what transpires.

Jim.

You can go the the website and plug in the info and get a value for the rebate, then the salvage amount is added to the rebate.

Hey.... thats our tax being used to fund this. We should get whatever salvage comes from these cars to help pay for that prog.!

Well, we don't need to get OUR money (salvage) mixed up with what the wonderfully benevnolant and all careing Federal Government does by redistributeing from the rich and gives to the poor, now do we?
Wow, that $4500 along with my $250 makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!

I think we need to buy a copy of Websters Dict. for those poor souls up on the hill so that they can look up the definition of the word "POOR". I believe that their definition of the word is "whoever can grab it first"! This will clarify any misconception and they will be happy to do things the honest way. Just like they have always done.

Sodium silicate is not sand or glass. It often goes by the trade name "water glass" because it dries to a clear solid. The first most common use for sodium silicate was as a glue to hold cardboard box flaps together forming the bottom or top of a cardboard box.

When sodium silicate is heated under the right conditions it goes through a couple of chemical transformations with the end product being silica gel, which is an insoluble solid composed of silicon dioxide, which is the primary chemical component of sand and glass. But silica gel is much more porous than sand or glass and that is why the silica gel is distinguished from sand and glass and thought of as different substance. For example, graphite and diamonds are both nothing but carbon, but no one thinks of graphite (pencil lead) and diamonds as the same stuff.

Sodium silicate destroys engines because it fills the spaces inside an engine with the hard but porous solid, silica gel (which isn't a gel at all as we think of gels).

Lee Prairie.

Thanks for that silica stuff explanation Lee. And now I think that whoever dreamed up this clunkers deal should get a couple of injections of the silica stuff. What a waste.

Hey Ken48

Out west, So. Cal. to be exact there's a place that takes old-worn-out 48's. I think I can talk him into giving you as much as $3,000.00 cash for your Aero "clunker".

Kidding. I do hope your out driving and enjoying that great looking car.

Enjoy the ride,
Michael41

.......and a sodium silicate cocktail to you too,Mike .

Haven't been out much this year.......too much cool and rainy weather. New England has been like the Pacific NorthWest thisyear.......I'm not used to it......good show in Stowe, VT this weekend......rain and thunderstorms predicted...

Just dropped the gas tank in my 48......had to replace the sender unit gasket......those "gas tank renu" deals aren't what they're cracked up to be.....and ethanol in the gas don't help either!!!!

Have a great rest of the summer!!


Edit: I haven't been out enough to wear out my VCCA hat ......I'll have to wait awhile before I order a new one!!!! Must be a recession thing!!

YES, A BIG hardy welcome to all. To the:


U.S.S.A.


UNITED SOCIALIST STATES OF AMERICA...


ISINT IT GREAT!!!

Ahhhhhhhhh...Haaa.....Our Elected Comrades know better what we should have and should not have. We don't need those stinky old cars, or gas or a voice. The Minority HAS spoken! The Majority MUST obey!

Hey now is the time for you to take advantage of the plan, were'nt you saying how you could not afford a new car in an earlier thread a few weeks ago?
$4,500 back for a gas eating POS and tax refund next year! If it stimulates the inventory and the factories have to build new cars then people work, tough concept to swallow.....
John

I cant say I'm for or against . I work in Chevrolet Dealership and new car sales keeps us from closing.The only thing I notice is every time I walk by my 1994 suburban with the 454 engine ,I swear it's cowaring in fear.

I'm all for a TAX rebate on income tax, but I don't know about GIVING away our $$ on this deal. There are better ways of accomplishing the same outcome without stealing any more of our and wasting perfectly usable items!

I said I was interested in this program and went to local dealers with 96 F-150. First dealer said I didn't qualify, second dealer said I did. Did take advantage of the program and got a 09 F-150.

As John pointed out in posts several weeks ago, I feel that putting our workers to work is most important. If we can bail out the big boy insurance companies et al, this is, I feel, a chance for the grunts to get a little back. Perhaps this is incorrect in figuring, but the most important thing is getting our people back to work building great American vehicles.

Howard50, talk nice to your Big Ol' Chevy and tell it that its time for it to retire. If you can swing it, think its a great idea.

Jim.