VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 1930 Chevy - Clutch removal

Got a great buy on Ebay for a 1930 original shop repair manual for only $2.00. Read the section on clutch removal and it states to remove engine from frame and undo the 8 cap nuts 1/2 turn at a time to release spring pressure and then then simply remove clutch. Question - do I really have to yank the motor first or can the clutch be removed without removing the motor? If I remove the floor boards - is there not enough room to remove the clutch with motor in place? I want to remove the clutch next week to send it out for rebuilding. There is a company here in Canada that says it will rebuild the clutch and machine the plate for $100 US. I am going to give them a try - if their work is good - I will post their company info here for others.
thanks again for your help
Maurice

Seems to me that I removed the clutch plate once without doing anything to the engine.

But I have another question for you. Are you going to resurface just the pressure plate and not the flywheel? I've always done both at the same time.

The price quoted included the flywheel machining - seems very reasonable and the company was recommended by the Antique Car Museum up here. If I drop the universal joint and drive shaft and unbolt the tranny and remove from car - my past mechanical experiences says it should work - Wondered why the book says to pull motor first?

Hey moedip, I don't think the 31 is much differant than the 30 and I don't have to pull the engine. The worst part is taking apart the brake cross bar so you can lower the drive line enough to pull the trans. After that it almost falls out by its self.

You must remove the transmission support from the engine as well, because the transmission is bolted onto the transmission support from the inside, which is completely different than on a 1931. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Thanks guys - I'll keep you posted!

This weekend I started on the car. I must say I am impressed in several ways. First - the bottom of this car looks like it came out of the showroom - a great piece of restoration! Second - what a pleasure working on this car compared to new ones! Taking my time - I disconnected the brake rods from the center link and dropped the center link - took about an hour - real easy - this car is high enough off the ground that I didn't even have to jack it up to get under it comfortably! After I removed the brake center link I removed the floor boards then I took off the four bolts from the tube housing and slid it back, drained the oil from the tranny and undid the 4 nuts from the universal joint. For some reason one bolt did not want to slide out easy but a little pressure from a screwdriver on the bracket and the back part of the universal slid off the bolts and I retracted it into the drive tube and lowered the drive tube. I then unbolted the park brake from the tranny and lowered the assy to the ground. Then I removed the clutch pedal assy, removed the clutch spring and removed the brake pedal assy. Then supporting the tranny on a jack I undid the bolts on the bell housing and moved the tranny back until the shaft was completely free of the clutch - then lowered the tranny to the ground. This has to be the simplest tranny removal I have ever done! Since it was getting dark, I left the clutch in for removal tonight. I did notice however that the clutch throwout collar was covered in bright red rust or dust powder. When I took the collar out - the surface that sits against the bearing was a deep gunmetal blue - like it was overheated. The blue covered the entire face over 3/4 of the surface and was about 1/4" narrower on about 1/4 of the surface. Could my clutch grabbing and jatter be the result of a bad throwout bearing? I will check tonite - what should I be looking for on the bearing? The clutch -without being taken out - looks positively new - no surface rust or anything. As I said previously this motor and tranny were rebuilt in '93 and only has about 76 miles on it -all from driving in slowing moving parades for about 5 miles a year. Any quick way to check clutch before sending out for rebuild? Could a bad throw out bearing that maybe isn't turning against the throwout collar causing it to overheat cause the grabbing and jatter? The jatter is so bad the whole car shakes when you let out the clutch normally but if you let the car idle and very slowly let the clutch out - it will engage fine - any increase over idle speed while letting the clutch out causes supreme car shaking jatter. Any advice will be appreciated.
thanks :confused: :p :p

Took the clutch out last night - the friction material was burnt and gummy in areas - definately bad - sent the clutch, and flywheel out to get rebuilt. The graphite throwout bearing and collar that looks overheated was sent to the clutch place as well for analysis. There is pitting in the face of the collar that is gunmetal blue where the graphite runs on - does not look right. Made an alignment tool from a VW tranny shaft to line up the clutch plate for when I re-install it. Have learned that the shop manual is INDESPENSIBLE when working on these cars. Anyone not familiar with these older cars must have one before working on them as the book contains many tips and info that a person will not think of. For example - on first look - the graphite bearing looks like it should rotate in the holder - and there even is a grease nipple on the outside of the holder. It should rotate - NOT! The book says the bearing is securely fastened into the holder and does not rotate. The grease nipple is to fill the holder with light oil for lubrication. Without the book a person could destroy the bearing trying to get it to rotate - which -when you look at the bearing - seems logical.Discovered a new Canadian beer - Sleeman Honey Brown - very smooth!! Will sip away until I hear back on the clutch!

Well - heard back - clutch material is packed with oil - the guy says major oil penetration into the fibres causing them to swell but the clutch material thickness was like new - hardly any wear. The bell housing inside is pretty clean and dry with only a little oil on the bottom by the weep hole. I know there is no rear seal on motor and the metal on the clutch itself was dry but the inside of the clutch housing has a good covering of oil. Since the clutch was in there 8 years and the car driven very little except in parades - is it possible that revving the engine with the clutch pushed in or riding the clutch for extended periods of time would cause it to absorb so much oil? Any ideas or experiences with something like this? The clutch will be ready for pick up Thursday. Any help or opinions would be appreciated.
thanks

So isn't another question - "Where is the oil coming from?" It would seem that the tranny shaft is leaking from the transmission. Or the rear main. :confused:

I've never had a throwout bearing go bad so I can't comment on that.

I've had clutch plates that had a little oil all around them but not that they "hurt" the plate... maybe they burnt a little but not enough to cause the chattering that you originally mentioned.

Did you also look for the pilot bearing on the end of your tranny? Where it fits into the flywheel/crank? :(

Now that the tranny is out, can you check on the wear of the shaft?

I don't find anything in your description that leads me to the obvious problem... at least not to the original problem.

Anybody else?

By the way, I felt sorry for you until you mentioned the new beer that you found!! ha!! Sounds great!!

Had a real close look last night. The tranny shaft is bone dry absolutely no seepage from the tranny and the tranny shaft is in excellent condition. The clutch cover at the back of the engine is covered in oil - the oil is definately coming from the rear of the engine. There is a large puddle on the inside of the bottom of the bell housing - so a lot of oil had leaked from the engine. Knowing that this is a splash type system with no rear seal - I am wondering if the oil pan could have been overfilled by the previous owner or if he had parked the car on a steep driveway and ran the engine many times. I know a little seepage from the rear of the motor is normal - but the wetness on this one is really bad. Unless someone can come up with some ideas - I think my best bet is to clean the rear of the engine and bell housing - drain the oil from the engine and put in 5 quarts and check the level on the dipstick to make sure the proper dipstick is being used and the engine is not being overfilled. The motor runs real quiet and smooth so I doubt the rear bearing is bad - there is no hint of any knocking. Even so - can the rear bearing allow too much oil to splash out?
On the graphite throwout bearing - mine is good - for now - but I found a company in Pennsylvania that sells graphite cylinders and it looks like the new era graphite with a tensile strength of 7500 lbs would make a great replacement bearing for the throwout bearing seeing that the clutch pressure is only 1000 lbs. I am waiting for them to give me a final price on a cylinder 3" round by 4" long. He figures it will be under $30. I will machine it on a lathe and cut it into several new replacement bearings. When mine goes - I will try the replacement - Could be a solution for some people wanting to rebuild theirs.
For those wanting to lube their pilot bearing - I found a great product by Libriplate called 730-2 part# 08598 . It is a white multi-purpose hi-temp, non-corrosive, extreme pressure, anti-wear, water repellant grease which we use on our manufacturing machines. Should make an ideal lube even for shackles and it comes in a grease gun cartridge. Just thought I would mention it. It is a little expensive at $9.00CDN for a tube but it does work great.
Any ideas on why the oil leaks out the rear of the engine so bad will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers!

On the cap of the rear bearing is a check ball (see your owner's manual). Make sure that your check ball is in the down position and that it is free. Many times this ball is stuck in the up (or closed) position not allowing the circulated oil to return to the oil pan. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Thanks Junkyard - I am at the office - no manual in my hand - To get to this check ball - I presume I have to drop the oil pan - after that is it hard to see or get to or is it plain and simple - there? really appreciate the tip - sounds like it could be the problem and at the same time I can check out the sludge level in the engine. I'll order a new oil pan gasket from Filling Station today. thanks again.

A 1931 engine I just rebuilt had a leak at the rear main bearing. Someone at some time had enlarged the oil supply hole. It couldn't drain fast enough and it leaked. This was the first time I ever had this problem. I removed the check ball and the car has now been driven about 100 miles without a sign of a leak. I have not tried Doug Bell's remedy. In "Cast Iron Wonder" he suggested cutting a groove in the rear main bearing for an oil drain. Also, I noticed that the 1932 engine has an extra drain hole and a larger check ball.

Thank you! I can hardly wait for the weekend to see if this is the problem! I really think you guys hit the nail on the head!

Once you drop the oil pan, the check ball on the rear main bearing cap is totally visible. There is a verticle pin holding the ball in place. If you see the pin, but not the ball, then it is probably stuck up in the top of the drain hole. If you want to remove the ball, just remove the pin and then the ball will come right out once it is in the "down" position, which is when it is resting against the vertical pin. Let us know what you find!

HEY GUYS, THIS IS GREAT, IT'S LIKE READING A "WHO-DONE-IT", CAN'T WAIT FOR THE NEXT CHAPTER. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!

Well - got the bad news this AM - my clutch cover plate is cracked in a couple of places by the bolt holes. The good news is they can repair but I won't get the clutch back until next week - price has gone up to $200 CDN. Still a good deal. They also told me they used to have 10 1930-31 new graphite throwout bearings in stock that another company bought up last year. I am waiting to hear from the guy to see what he wants for one. The company takes VISA so if anyone else wants one - post on this thread and when he calls me I will post the price and give those who are interested his phone number - the guy is only 20 minutes away from me.

Check with the Filling Station in Lebanon, Oregon, because I believe that they have some NOS throwout bearings in stock. :eek: :eek:

Just got the clutch back fully refurbished and the flywheel machined. The end price was $377 CDN. Unfortunately, last week end I was on the receiving end of an encounter with a chain saw that got me in the leg. Luckily - it missed the tendons and arteries and the nerves to the foot - sore as hell but the Doc says full recovery with no side effects. So - I will not be able to re-install clutch until the week end at earliest. I will keep everyone posted. In the meantime - thank you to the American club members who have helped me so much in getting to know this car. Have a Great 4th of July and God Bless America!!!

Have recuperated enough to start on the 30 Chevy again. I looked underneath last night and saw the cover with the indent for the checkball and pin under the rear bearing held on by four bolts. It looks like I have to remove the flywheel cover from the back of the engine first to get at them - which will be a good time to clean up the oily mess on the back of the engine. One question the books don't address - do I have to drop the oil pan first to get the rear bearing cover off or do I just undo the 4 bolts and it will drop off? Thanks again for your help.
Maurice

Drop the oil pan. :eek: :eek:

Thank you - will do!

OK - Think I have the problem in hand. When I went to drop the oil pan - all the bolts were so loose - I took them out by hand. The rear bearing area where the crank exits the block behind the 4" plate on the crank that the flywheel bolts onto was bone dry. When you came down to the curved rear gasket seal area on the crank holding plate - the 4 bolts that hold it to the block and bottom of it were covered in oil. I think all my grief was due to poor maintenace of the oil pan bolts by the previous owner. From what I can deduce- the oil was leaking along the oil pan gasket and with forward speed - travelled along it to the back of the motor. The top of the front bottom plate that covers the bottom front of the flywheel and is held on by 2 bolts on each side, stops at the same height as the oil pan gasket on the motor. There is about 1/8" open space between this plate and the bottom of the motor which creates an open window for the oil flowing along the oil pan gasket to have wind blow it into the clutch area. Please realize that there was not much oil along the sides of the oil pan - it seems to have leaked more at higher revs when driving and then gets pushed back and gets into the clutch area. When the car was parked - there were no oil spots on the ground along the length of the oil pan - just at the rear. I cleaned up the oil pan and reinstalled along with the clutch last night and will finish assembling later this week end.
But before I do - the engine is definately the wrong color - it is GM engine blue - like the sky. I found some Dupont paint at my Auto Supply House that is called #1906 or #1908 - can't remember and I am at work -Chevrolet Engine Blue high heat paint- It is a hard to describe color - it is a dark blue -almost looks like a hint of navy in it with a greyish tinge to the blue. Is this the correct color? If it is - I will hold off putting the car together and pull the motor - which is easy now - and repaint it first.
I would appreciate a response on the engine color. thanks
maurice

Hey moedip;
Check the G&D for Bill Hearsh's e-mail address and order the engine paint right on line. I believe it's the correct color and he's not cheap but it's good stuff. I've had it on my '32 for years and it holds up like iron.
RGwiz