VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 crank shaft oil leak

My '31 has a rebuilt '33 Master engine that was rebuilt about 6 years ago & has not been run until recently. The engine start & runs fine but today I've noticed that there is an oil leak coming from the front cranksaft area. I'm assuming/hoping its just the oil seal as I haven't yet removed the radiator, etc. to really see whats going on. I notice that when the engine idles it reall doesn't leak that much. As you increase the rpm's you can see some oil being slung from what appears coming from behind the balancer & the timing cover. I don't know exactly what I should be looking for but I'm assuming there must be some type of a seal. If it is a seal does any one know who makes it, part # & where one can order one????? Also I saw in my manual something about time gear nozzle on the time gear cover that provides oil to the timing gears. Should I be looking at that also???? Does one need a special puller to pull the balancer?

As always any help would be greatly appreciated

There is no seal on a '33 engine front bearing. Only a slinger on the front of the crank. If the slinger is missing, the drain hole in the bearing cap or the tolerance of the bearing is too wide then excess oil will overflow out past the crank and balancer. The nozzle only directs a gravity feed to the timing gears. Not pressure there.

Any large two jaw puller with bolts can be used to pull the balancer.

My '32 has the original '32 engine (re-built in 2004) in it and I fired it up today and had it running for the first time in over 50 years! It is the first time I have ever heard this engine run - unbelieveable thrill!

(Thanks JYD - GREAT work on the electrolock and distributor! Works like a charm. And you hit the nail on the head when you said that the re-builder likely did not replace the thrust washer on the top of the oil pump.)

Well it seems that they likely forgot to replace the oil slinger at the front of the engine because soon after the stove bolt was breathing life again it begain puking oil out front just below the splash apron.

My question is: where might I begin to source an oil slinger to replace the one I longer have?

32confederation (Landau Phaeton) Canadian eh!

Glad to hear that the electrolock and the distributor work great and that you are satisfied with the job performed.

On the oil slinger, "Chevyb" (he is a regular on this forum) will probably have one. Also, make sure that your oil nozzle is pointing correctly as well when you install the front oil slinger.

Good luck!
:p

Well I guess I had better ask the next question: Which way is the correct way for my nozzle to be pointing? LOL

(Seriously, oil is getter harder and harder to afford so I can't have it running all over the ground.)

Chevyb, please advise if you are able to assist in resolving my engine colic.

32confederation

Found what I was looking for about the nozzle in the Chevrolet Repair Manual.

Hood's off, water is drained and the rad shell is back on the shelf. The harmonic balancer will be next when I can get a puller.

Could someone describe what the oil slinger looks like?

deleted by sender :p

The slinger looks like a big washer.It is 2 15/16" out side diameter with a 13/16" hole in the center.The is a little notch in the center hole to allow the slinger to pass over the woodruf key in the crankshaft.Its a little cup shaped.The slinger is just behind the balancer and held in place by the balancer.The leak could be caused by some thing other than the absence of the slinger so wait until the cover is removed.The last one I had I sold to the guy in Florida.

If necessary you can Email chevyB at bwbugay@aol.com

Chevgene,

I have removed the balancer and did not find the oil slinger you described above behind the balancer. I started the engine to observe how the engine oil leaks from the cover and it appears to well up inside the cover before spilling over. The oil level also appears to drop after the engine is switched off.

There is a rubber type disc just inside the cover directly on the crankshaft. It is slightly less than 1 5/8" in diameter with a hole in the center for the crankshaft. The disc has a small lip or ridge pointing outwards towards the balancer. A portion of this lip is worn or deteriorated. This disc is also stationary and does not turn with the rotation of the crankshaft. The photo below is what I see:



(here is a link to a larger photo)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/32confederation/9dad44ab.jpg

1) Could the oil leak problem be remedied simply with an oil slinger in this case?
2) Is it still prudent to break the seal on the timing gear cover to investigate the oil nozzle and the drain hole back to the crankcase?
3) Are there any other words of wisdom for this poor grease monkey who so desparately what to get this Landau Phaeton back on the road again after her 50+ year slumber?

1)Probably a major cause.
2)Yes,remove the cover.You are 99% there and all bolts face the front on that year except lower 3 but can be removed from rear without pan removal..The small amount of oil that the timing gear gets at idle should easily return thru the return hole-perhaps hole is partly restricted.
2 1/2)Have no idea what the rubber piece is.Not factory.Someone may have installed something to prevent oil leak.Chunks of it may be restricting return hole.
3)Keep the faith...every one has had some sort of wierd problem.....try to locate a slinger.Some one must have one taken from a "spare" engine.
3 1/2)May be easier to find a 1935-36 balancer which is designed to use a cork seal - a modern rubber seal can also be found to fit.Would also require a 1935-36 front cover....Both of these parts were sold to replace the original 1933-34 versions.The 1935-36 used no slinger due to the seal.

As Chev Nut has pointed out, there is no rubber disc used in that engine. You need to install the correct metal oil slinger and that should take care of your leak.

Chev Nut (Chevgene) & JYD,

Wisdom prevails every time. I just wish I had more of it when it comes to this subject!

I pulled the timing cover and this is what I found:




(The inside of the timing cover and backside of the oil slinger can be viewed from the links below if it helps to identify what I have to work with.)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/32confederation/DSCN2554.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/32confederation/DSCN2555.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/32confederation/DSCN2556A.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/32confederation/DSCN2559A.jpg

The cupped metal washer (oil slinger I presume) has a double recessed cup and was found in this location with the strange rubber disc adhered to it (I have removed the rubber disc). Both the O.D. of the oil slinger and the hole is slightly larger than your description above. The oil nozzle is pointing directly at the spot where the two timing gears mesh.

I will attemp to use a pipe cleaner in the drain hole to the crankcase to clear any blockage. However, any debris will end up in the oil pan.

1) What is the correct orientation of the oil slinger?
2) Is it the smaller recess on the oil slinger that fits into the opening on the timing gear cover from the outside just behind the balancer?

JPG2556A shows the rear of the slinger...that side goes towards the engine.The outter edge that is flared out goes to the cover.

The fact that the timing gear has a Bow Tie on it indicates that it may be the original timing gear....1933 was the last year
Chevrolet placed the emblem on timing gears in the US.

You can try poking a wire thru the oil return hole.Any particles should be caught by the oil pump screen which is very fine -or will settle to the bottom of the pan.

Looks like the last person in there used the black silicone rubber in a tube.That stuff is good for plugging up things.Appears they used it to hold the slinger in place-or something.

A wire had been poked through the oil return hole and no obstructions were encountered.

I must note that this cold engine (rebuilt, tight, stiff) at idle speed registered about 15 psi on the gauge on the dash (this rebuilt gauge may not be registering correctly).

Could the engine be delivering too much oil through the nozzle for the drain hole to clear?

No-the nozzle does not recieve oil under pressure.The "run off" oil from the front cam bearing is directed to the nozzle.Its gravity fed from there.If the crankshaft front main bearing has too much clearence it can also spill too much oil into the timing cover area.The oil pan would need to be removed and bearing "readjusted" by removing shims.

When cold my '34, which has no seal, has in excess of 15 pounds of pressure at idle-pegs at 30 when reved up, and does not leak.

This is all very good information. Thank you.

I have cleaned both the block and the timing cover of all the old gasket material and silicone rubber. I will order new gasket(s) from the Filling Station, assemble and see what happens.

My optimism runs high, I just hope my oil runs back into the pan.

32confederation