VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION VCCA Judging Questions CDPC (Chevrolet Driver Participation Class)

As usual, PDXjoe's thoughts are good, logical, sensible, insightful.

That word modified is such a lightning rod.

Two thoughts come to mind. Maybe it was old Abe who said "you can't please all the people all the time" line. It seems to fit here.

Also the line about the ice cream store. Something like "That's why there's lots more flavors than just vanilla." That also seems to fit here.

The club is obviously oriented toward "restored to original" cars. But even those 'restored to original' cars, as PDXjoe points out, often are actually "modified." Even tho the intention was to restore the car to original.

Bill.

I guess it could be said that the act of restoreing an old Chevrolet is a modification from original. I have been saving the original air from the tires on my 1928. I may sell a canister or two of it on eBay.

Anyone know how to tell if the pre-war (WWII) air is original or not?

Sorry for the wording, Tour, I think it should have been MEET.
That is correct, NORTHWEST MEET- "Rally In The Valley", was what it was called.
But we had a good time no matter what it was called.
I have had a good time on every tour that i have been on, so keep up the good work VCCA Regions.

This is quite a thread. I just spent the past half hour reading it. I have been considering joining the VCCA and did an internet search to locate the local chapter and this also came up in the search.

A brief introduction on me: I am 61, not yet retired and a recent purchaser of a '37 Master Deluxe Sport Sedan. I bought a car that several previous owners had worked on but never completed. My intent is to restore to original, but with minor upgrades.

After reading through this thread, I am not sure that there is a place for me in the VCCA. It is not my intent to create a car to be judged. Although I want an original car, I intend to install seat belts, sound deadening and thermal insulation, turn signals and perhaps a few other minor changes. I want a car that is as original as possible, but also safe to drive.

As I was not the person to dismantle the car, I have needed assistance on my restoration. I have been a participant on this web site for about three months now and have benefited greatly from the generous help provided by some of the members.

I intend to use the car for pleasure drives on the weekend, perhaps to drive it to work once in a while and take some co-workers or clients out to lunch, or what ever else seems like fun.

About eight years ago I started to repair pre war antique radios. At that time I joined a local club for selfish reasons. I wanted to glean knowledge from the experts and this seemed the best way to do it. As it turned out, it was. I learned a lot and have made many new friends. So it is with the car that I now have. I have pretty good mechanical skills, but without a doubt, working on a vintage Chevy is a challenge. This is why I am considering joining the VCCA. I am sure that there is a vast amount of specialized knowledge stored in the "vintage" and not so vintage members. The events are surely enjoyable, but what about me? My car is a work in progress. It will never be "perfect" or totally original (it won't be painted candy apple red with yellow flames down the side either.) Is there a place in the VCCA for people like me?

Thanks,

Rich

Rich,
The Driver Participation Class was designed for vehicles just like yours. I think you will find the VCCA worth while, just for the monthly magazine, let alone the activites you have already noticed. I don't think you will be sorry
John Mahoney
VCCA National Judging Chair

Rich, When you car is completed as you described it will be equal to about 70% percent of the cars in the club.There is a certain percentage of the members that restore the car for show. There are a number that restore the cars for "go" and most are some where in between. Some have later model engines, such as a 235, not all colors are "original" and its the friends that you make in the process that you will appreciate most as the years go by. Most enjoy driving their cars as thats what its all about. The Mile High Region is active in the Denver area and there are many great folks that belong to it.

Rich, I'm doing the same thing you are with my '31 coupe. Instead of spending $2,500 for the original upholstry and another $2,500 to have someone put it in, I picked out some upholstry that was real close and I'll have it installed for the complete sum of $2,600. Putting in a regular radiator instead of the honeycomb wich saved me a bundle. Also, all the bolts & screws won't be original but it should look real nice. I plan on taking the wife for lunch once in a while, drive the grandkids around {I have 26} and take it golfing, ect. Oh yes, I just got back from Aroura, Co. with a '49 Deluxe and that will be a driver too. Join up as you can't beat this place for information and a good time. Take your car to some meets and meet a whole new group of friends. When in Denver I visited my son and daughter and also got to see The Old Coach's 31 in Littleton. Now, there's a show car. Have to talk him into posting it's picture here and getting it into next years calander.

Your car will be a perfect fit for touring in VCCA.

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the information. The above comments contain acronyms, abbreviations and buzz words that I am not familiar with. I hate to admit that when I first read “class” I thought of instruction rather than classification. The comments on judging and the minutiae and resulting cost involved in recreating what others might judge a “worthy” vehicle were a little off-putting to me.

In the three and a half months that I have owned the car, I have taken the boxes of loose parts that came with the car and have got it to the point where I can drive the car under its own power. I have swallowed hard and decided to repair the knee action front shocks rather than replace the entire front end. When I got the car, I did benefit from previous owner’s work. All chrome parts have been re-chromed; I have a new upholstery kit and a new wiring harness. I even have the original gauges working. So, I think I will have a very good representative example of the car, but it won’t be perfect. The color is wrong, and I don’t intend to change it. I will make the minor changes I noted above and perhaps a few others. I want this to be a car that I can be proud of. I also want this to be as original as practical, yet safe, reliable and comfortable to drive. I don’t want someone to look down their nose at my seat belts and shake their heads at the bastardization of the vehicle. It sounds like this will not happen. In the near future, I will check into the Mile Hi chapter of the VCCA.

Rich

Rich,
In short, yes, you are in the right place! Come on in...the water's fine!
You'll find that although many (but not all) of us strive to make our vehicles as safe, roadworthy and original as possible. There may be a contradiction in that statement, but the bottom line is we try to have fun with the cars and the folks we meet. Some are more 'original' than others, if you get my point, and virtually all of us have modified something including at a minumum the use of modern oils, greases and gasoline, neoprene gaskets vs. the old cork material, paint, asbestos free brake linings, etc.
We've had several discussion at local events and on this website regarding 'originality' and survival. My personal opinion is that we as a club need to build a big tent to allow a broader range of Chevrolets (modifieds, hi-performance, etc.), and if we try to be a club exclusive to 100% as original vehicles we will become a very small fraternity indeed.
So I encourage you to join the VCCA and your local region and have a lot of fun with your car. Good luck getting her on the road!

Rich, My '48 cabriolet has been done since the early 80's. It has seat belts, turn signals, modern paint, modern top material(Stayfast), vinyl door panels instead of the original leatherette, modern carpet in the back seat etc. And it has the "original" Hampton Coach upholstery kit- even the kit is modified! I restored it to drive but showed it for several years in the mid and late 80's and I never had any trouble with originality. It worked its way up to the preservation award and after one oval, I just drove it. It's now been driven over 25000 miles and still gets compliments for its appearance and originality - And as I said above, all restored cars are modified. Joe

Gentlemen,

Thanks for all of your comments. Gene has taken the time to forward a membership form to me and I will be using it.

I am making good progress with my car and barring any significant problems, I will be driving it this summer.

Rich

Now that I am a member and can read what the requirements are for the CDPC, I am not sure that my car will meet the requirements. For example, "period correct color." I don't have a clue what that means. My car was originally "gun metal" but it is now a cream color, just like the color of the car on the mast head (2nd from the right) for Chevy Chatter II (above).

I have a 6-volt alternator in lieu of the generator (which I could never get to work properly. It's 63 amps and only cost me about $70.) I am considering that sometime in the future, I may swap out the 216 for a 235 and change the gear ratio on the rear end for better crusing speed. Is that allowed?

Rich

The answers to your questions are all relative. Do you want a correct car that will stand the scrutiny of a Judge, or do you want a big block with AC. Once you have made that decision, your questions will be answered.

Rich,
The CDPC is basically a "National Participation Award" where the cars are not under the scrutiny of a judge, but certified that they are visually reflective of our clubs mission statement. So if you have a lower ratio rear and it is in the same housing that is fine. If you have a 235 instead of a 216, as long as looks like it belongs that is fine. If the color of the car looks like a color that should be on the car that is fine also. But if your car is painted candy apple red, with a big block and a ford rear, then it does represent the mission statement.
It is pretty hard for me to offer you advice without seeing the car. I was told that we certified our first five CDPC vehicles this past week.
John Mahoney
National Judging Chair

Ray,

To answer your question, I want neither of the types of cars you describe.

I don't want a "correct" car if that means that my use of the car will be severely limited. With the 4.22 rear end, I feel that I will be lucky to be able to cruise at 60mph, and yes, that will be important. This car will likely make some multi thousand mile trips. Driving in the summer without an A/C does not appeal to me. That will be a future modification. Does my 216 engine have the oooomph to run an A/C, I don't know. I do know that when new, the 216 was rated at 85 hp and the 235 is about 140 hp. That's quite a bit of difference for a car that only weighs 3,000 lbs, and at 5,400 feet, where I live, an 85 hp engine will only produce 70 hp when new. (The way I figure it, a new condition 235 would give me about 1/3 more hp at altitude than the car had when new at sea level.) I currently have about 70% of the compression of a new engine. That could translate to perhaps only 50 hp available now. I have been told that after driving the car for a while, the rings may loosen up and give better compression. The engine is currently running well, so I do not have a teardown planned.


John,

Is there a list of correct colors for each year? You can see the car next to my name, and as I mentioned, it is the same color as one of the cars on the masthead of this forum.

I believe that my car, even with the modifications I mentioned, should still meet the spirit of the CDPC. There will be no modifications affecting appearance with the possible exception of the exterior color and my restoration budget does not currently include a new paint job.

One thing that is not clear to me is at what type of event would the CDPC examination be done? If I go for a sanctioned cruise with the Mile High Region folks, would it be done there?

Rich

Neither Black or white, maybe a nice shade of gray? just a metaphor. It sounds like to me your car should be a candidate for CDPC (Chevrolet Driver Participation Class) even after you install a 53-54 Powerglide rear end, Vintage Air or one like that and some smooth riding Radials. Just my humble opinion.

As to where, That question brings to mind a VCCA sanctioned meet like the one in June at Stillwater Oklahoma.

The 32nd Middle West Meet
in Stillwater Oklahoma - June 9-12, 2008
do you need a form? contact:Becky Hamilton, 2201 N. Sangre Road, Stillwater, OK 74075.



Why worry about it?

Don't you intend to DRIVE IT!

Don't worry about the gear ratio change. The ratio is not questioned, even for regular judging.
The 235 engine will pas OK for the participation class.
In 1937 Chevrolet had a special demonstrator color called Swan Gray. It consisted of 31 3/4 Oz. white, 1/16 Oz of black, 1/16 Oz of yellow, and 1/16 Oz of green. The wide belt moulding on the side of the car was red as were the wheels. The color chip looks more cream than gray. Probably due to the yellow and green used for tinting.
Just a note about an axle ratio change. For mountain climbing the 3.73 ratio will be like adding 5 passengers to your present car/ratio. The 235 engine would bring performance back up to the 216 and 4.22 ratio level. With a good engine 55 to 60 is a safe crusing speed with your present 216, add another 10 MPH for a ratio change and another 10 MPH for a 3.73 ratio. The later 3.55 Power Ratio will make the 216 a real slug, like on the grade on I-70 going west out of Denver. You will be stuck in the slow lane at 35 MPH, and that will be in either high or 2nd gear.

Rich,
It seems like your car is well in the spirit of things and really should not be a problem. As far as the certification that is only done at a Nationally Judged Meet, the awards are distributed by the Awards Chairman and the Chief Judge.
Enjoy,
John Mahoney
National Judging Chair

Gene,

Thanks for all the good information.

John,

I guess I will wait for a national event in the Denver area. I had no idea that this would have such limited availability. Is no one in a region compentent to make this type of evaluation?

Rich

Rich,
If you are not participating at the Meet then why would you want a participation award? It is not about competency, it is about participation. Give it a try you will find it to be a worthwhile experience, most of the fun is getting there and back, and the feeling of accomplishment when you drive your car. It is the VCCA's way of recognizing those who do and share their car with other members.
There is no reason why there can not be a National Event in the Denver Area, all someone has to do is say they want to do it. The VCCA allow's two meets a year in each Geographic Area, and Area's 4,5,and 6 only have one a year between all three. It is a shame because the great service offered by the club is limited to the membership. It does not have to be a multiple day event, it could just be a one day judged show. Those are very popular here in the east, and much easier to host
John

John,

I am a new member and don't know about all the things that the club offers or what has to be done to participate.

As to events in the Denver area, I have no idea how many members there are near here. I attended the Mile High Region meeting this month and there were about two dozen members that attended. Certainly not a large crowd. In this part of the country you have to go a long ways to put together a crowd. Go to Stillwater, Ok, you say. That's a 1,500 mile round trip. That's a long hot drive for a car with no a/c.

Rich

RichK, This meet is the one for your geographical region.

The 32nd Middle West Meet
in Stillwater Oklahoma - June 9-12, 2008
do you need a form? contact:Becky Hamilton, 2201 N. Sangre Road, Stillwater, OK 74075.

You will need to attend one to understand what a VCCA meet is all about. Check with The Mile High Region members, they may be planning to attend the meet. Maybe they will plan a caravan trip up and back to Stillwater.


Colorado, Kansas, Iowa, Missouri,Nebraska, are all in Area 5 Middle West Central. Mike mcNeil is your Area Director for the National VCCA Board of Directors.

Clay Perrine is the Area#6 Director. Texas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas.

OOps... it also includes Middle West North Area #4 I didn't mean to leave you guys out. Mary James is your Area #4 National Board Director.

Now ask me why the 32nd Middle West meet is being held in Oklahoma (Area 6, Middle West South)

I would say it is being held as a Middle West Meet which includes Area #4, Area #5, and Area #6


The Middle West Areas does not have the population denisty or the traffic conjestion of the North Eastern & right coastal regions or left coastal and North Western areas. We have more tours than meets. That has as much as anything to do with low traffic congestion and low population density as a reason.

For a calendar of all reported and sanctioned events in VCCA please go to http://www.vcca.org/ and click on Calendar of events.

Explore the VCCA.ORG site and you will find a lot of information for VCCA members and wanna be VCCA members.

Mr. Mack,

Thanks for the information and encouragement. I do intend to participate, but first, I need to complete my car. I doubt that the entry of my 2008 Sable will garner any points (although it is in "showroom condition.") My '37 is sitting up on jacks in the garage with the transmission on the floor waiting for me to get up the courage to rip its guts out.

Once I have my car complete, or at least in safe driving shape, I will be able to attend local events. One thing that will help is that I will retire this summer. That will give me more time and less money, but what the heck.

Rich

RichK,

......Money isn't everything........

















:vcca:





.............but it is way ahead of whatever is in second place!