VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1946-1948 Stupid Questions Time

Okay, so I've been out in the garage tinkering with the car a little to see if I can get it to at least start/fire up for a few minutes.
I hooked it up to a 12 volt battery, poured gas in the carb and stepped on the starter pedal and it turned over breifly, but didn't quite fire. Tried this several times and then stopped. Went over to the battery and the cables are smoking and very hot. Is this normal or does this indicate a major problem somewhere? Also, the starter sounds weak. Sometimes I hit the starter pedal and it doesn't turn at all, other times I hit it and it kind of hesitates, but turns a little. Does this indicate a problem with the starter? Should I only be using a 6 volt battery for this? I know you guys are probably thinking, "oh man, this guy doesn't have a clue" But, I'm hoping I can learn something from your responses, so I figured why not just try:) Thanks!

The 12 V battery should make it spin over really fast. Cables hot question. Either the jumper cables are the little thin ones (like in cheap) or the starter needs rebuilding.

Tell us more about the car. <edit - disregard - I just figured out it is the same car as in the 'To Restore or Not' string >

Extended periods of having jumper cables connected makes most of them heat up pretty good.

So its sounds like it might be normal to have them heat up when trying to start it for extended periods of time?
Also, I think the ground cable is the original. The positive battery lead seems like a big one, but its hard to tell with out a reference. I'll check out the cables at the local auto parts store and see if I can just get a bigger one?

How can I tell if the starter needs rebuilding? I'm assuming I would need to take it off the car and bench test it? Any advice? Thanks!

Are you talking about the positive and negative cables on the battery or the size of your "jumper cables"? Regarding the hot cables, Chev Nut in his posting above was referring to the size of your "jumper cables".

:) :grin:

Yeah, I'm talking about the size of the battery cables. I'm not using any jumper cables, not sure why they thought I was using a jumper cable?
Anyway, I just went back out to the garage to look over things again and I had left the battery connected for about an hour or so and the coil exploded all over the place! I'm assuming its bad to use a 6 volt coil with a 12 volt battery? Or could there be something else wrong with the ignition circuit that would cause the coil to explode?

Yes, your car should be using a six volt battery, and a 12 volt booster battery and extended running of the 6 volt starter with a 12 volt battery (not more than 10 or 15 seconds, then letting it cool for 30 or 45 seconds) will burn out the fields and short and then you will be seeing the smoke! I would be sure to have a proper srarter circuit, with a freshly rebuilt six volt starter, and a new 6 volt coil. Take the starter to a local place like a Alternator Starter shop that does this kind of work for your local car repair shops, most repair shops really don't rebuild starters, they take them out to a special shop. Go to a farm supply store that sells batteries and battery cables for farm tractors, many of them will have the 00 cables needed for a six volt system as well as the high amp-hour 6 volt battery. While you are there pick up a 12 volt and 6 volt combo charger. You will be needing one for as long as you have vintage stock Chevrolets of 1954 vintage or older.

What else did you do to check out the engine before trying to get it running? pull the plugs squirt some Marvel Mystery oil or ATF into the sparkplug holes and then turn the engine over several times before cleaning and installing the plugs? Pull the valve cover, oil the rocker shafts and valve stems and check for stuck valves? How about cleaning the carb inside with carb cleaner? Check for clean fuel flow to the carb? Setting the point gap and installing a new condenser? This checking out will get you off on the right step to get the engine running.

You mentioned that you were trying to start the car with a 12 volt battery instead of a six vote battery, so some of us reading your postings assumed that you were using jumper cables on a 12 volt booster battery. Using a 12 volt battery in a six volt system is not a good idea if you don't know how to use a 12 volt battery correctly.

:) :grin:

Okay, so I had never heard of using a 12 volt booster battery before and so I was just using a 12 volt in place of the original 6 volt battery.
What is the proper way to hook up a 12 volt boster battery? Also, I will definitely run down the list of things mentioned to check out before proceeding any further with trying to get it started. I have not yet taken the carb off to clean, and I definitely haven't checked under the valve cover yet. I will work on all these things this week and get back to you all when I get stuck again.
Also, thanks for the suggestion of going to a tractor supply store to find the right gauge cables. I already have a new 6 volt and 12 volt battery so I should be good to go there. Anything else I should be doing at this point?
Thank you all for taking the time to help me out.

A great big NO! NO! on using a 12-volt battery to start a 6 volt system. The original 6-volt battery should be connected as normal. Use jumper cables to use the 12-volt battery for starting. Connect the positive post of the 12-volt battery to the positive post of the 6-volt battery. Connect the negative jumper cable to the negative post on the 12-volt battery. HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART, WHILE TRYING TO START THE ENGINE WITH THE 6-VOLT SYSTEM TEMPORALLY TOUCH THE NEGATIVE JUMPER CABLE TO A SPOT ON THE ENGINE OR FRAME. The idea is to reduce the total voltage from the 12-volt battery by placing some resistance in the circuit. USE THE 12-VOLT BATTERY TO ASSIST STARTING FOR ONLY 5 TO 10 SECONDS AND THEN DISCONNECT THE CABLE. If it started, fine, if not let it sit for a few minutes before attempting another start. NEVER connect a 12-volt battery across a 6-volt battery for over a few seconds. Bad things can and will happen.

Okay, got it Thanks! Once again, this is all very valuable information for someone just starting out like myself. I need all the good advice I can get!

Experiance is a good teacher, but only for the survivors, usually it also involves some expense, to correct the experiance.
Welcome to the club site

What amazes me, is that you got all of this sound advice in 5 hours and 11 minutes. Wow.. the power of Chatter II !!!!

Yes I know, internet forums/discussion boards are such great sources of information. You can really learn a great deal from a large variety of people. By the way, I love calvin and hobbes!

Hello Again - there's a place called MARVS AUTO ELECTRIC on Van Dyke one light south of M-59. He has the number one battery cables that you should have for the 6V system. The thinner ones like those used for later 12 V systems can cause you trouble too. The connections need to be sound, but the wire gauge is important too. They can get hot, ect. All Marv will need to know is the length. Shorter's better, just long enouth to get the job done and live with engine roll. There's a port (a little flapper door and tube)for oil on the starter that you should attend to as well as all the other good ideas above.

Thanks bowtie! i'll be checking that out for sure

Okay, so I went ahead and ordered a rebuilt starter for my car the other day and got it installed today. I really thought that the reason my old starter wasn't turning over very well was because it needed to be rebuilt. However, the rebuilt one does the same thing. Basically its very weak and barely turns the engine over a few times before stopping. I have a new, fully charged 6 volt battery hooked up to it. However, the battery cables are still the old ones and get very hot and even start smoking after trying to start it for a minute or so. I've already ordered a new set of large gauge battery cables for it, but they haven't came yet.

What could be causing the starter to turn the engine over so slowly? Could it just be the battery cables? Is my battery too weak? Could it be that the clutch is not fully disengaging? Help!, I don't know where to go from here to get the engine to turn over good and try to get it started.

Its just the cables. With out the proper size cable the new starter or fully charged battery are of no value.

You already got your answer....
That would be my first answer too. Maybe we should call those thin 12 Volt cables "grief cables"

Hey Hatfielj,

From what you say....


It's too bad I or somebody didn't get this sooner. Sorry. There's not much that's a cinch in this hobby; but in this case I'd say it's a cinch it's the cables. You're sure to be amazed at the size difference when your six volt cables arrive.

Bill.

Hey Mac,

I'll bet those "thin" 12 volt cables work just fine on your 68. NO "grief" there.

Did you ever get rally wheels for your 68??? They sure do look nice on big cars like 68's.

Bill.

Well thats certainly a releif! Thanks everybody, I sure am glad I went ahead and spent the money on some proper sized cables! I'll let you all know the results.
Also, I think someone on here suggested using 00 gauge (2/0) battery cables. Is this correct? If not, I can probably still change my order to a single 0 (1/0) gauge cable. I just wasn't sure if it was possible to have too large a cable?

As a I recall, 2 "0" is what you want. I'm pretty sure that's what I have on my stock, 6 volt '54. Certainly no problem for me if you wait til someone who knows more than I do confirms the 00 size....

Bill.

Yes, the thin cables have worked fine on the 68.
No I haven't found a nice set of 15 inch rally wheels. I bought a new set of Goodyear 14 inch tires and have decided to keep the car original as possible, I am in the process of gathering and installing parts for a cruise control, I am 90% there also replaceing the old compressor, dryer and expansion valve with some new components for the factory four seasons A/C. I seem to always have some upgrade to these old cars, they are never quite like I want them to be.

Just curious if anyone has any tips on how to give a carburetor a good cleaning before reassembly? I wanted to know if there was anything other than spraying with carb cleaner I could do? Thanks.

OK, spray it down with WD-40 (wear safety goggles)and use a stiff toothbrush. The carb cleaner B-12 works ok but I use it in the open air outside, after the carb is off the car (it isn't good for fresh engine paint), I also spray it inside the carb and to clean all the small passages. again, it will eat your eyeballs! (read the ingrediants list)it is more of a fire hazard than WD-40 but WD-40 is also very flamable when sprayed out of an aerosol can

If the starter is grounding out you don't have to take it off to test for that. Turn the switch on and connect a volt meter to the negative side of the battery and touch the other lead to the starter body. If it's grounded, you'll show voltage.

41burb

41Burb,

Your instructions need to be cleaned up. If you re-read them you will locate the error.