I would like the BOD to pass both motions 06-32 and 06-33.

I would like the board to go one step further and have the judging rules the same for all Divisional Meets and Anniversary Meets.

I have never understood the logic of having two different sets of judging rules. One for Anniversary Meets and the other for Divisional Meets.

My understanding is that the judging rules are the same and what is different is the awards system. Aside from the "Best of Show", HPCOF and Preservation categories, anniverary meets have only 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the classes while regional meets have 1st Jr, 2nd Jr, 3rd Jr, 1st Senior, 2nd Senior, 3rd Senior for each class.

Jim

I guess I should have said that all judging should be the same. Same classes, same awards. No difference between Divisional Meets and Anniversary Meets.

I agree. It should be one awards system throughout.

Jim

If that were to happen then the "special" nature of the Anniv. Meets would be lost. It would just be another meet but only held each 5 years.

The only concern that I have about the Anniversary Meet and awarding First, Second and Third Place awards is this. If you bring a car or truck to an Anniversary Meet and you are the only one in your class, you automatically win first place. You would win first place even if you only get 700 points on your judging sheet ( or less ).
Somehow, that does not seem quite right.

It is possible to have both, head to head for the highest three vehicles and also offer National Awards based on scores for the award being sought. Example There are five cars in a class three cars are seeking first Junior, one is Junior seeking a senior and one is a repeat preservation. The Best three cars the two of the cars that were seeking the first Junior, and the repeat preservation. The scores were 988, 980, and 978. They are the first second and third The other car seeking a Junior scored 975 and will receive a First Junior, but no other award at the meet, the car seeking the Senior scored 910 and receives an oval. It still can be unique and still be the only meet where the classes are by each year.
John Mahoney

The "Special" nature of the Anniversary Meet would still be a longer meet, more and better tours, more and better seminars, and going to a different area of the country.

It is just my opinion but the different judging does not make the Anniversary Meets better but it does add to some confusion. I don't believe judging is what brings people to the Anniversary Meets.

With Judging the same as all Divisional Meets the folks that live in the out of the way places, that do not have the shorter Divisional Meets to attend, would have the opportunity to be awarded Junior, Senior, or Preservation Awards/ Ovals.

There are many VCCA judged car shows that are only one day. People will not drive hundreds of miles for a one day show. An example of this is that a region in California requested an exception to the rule of one meet per area per year for the reason of travel. As I understand it the problem was traveling from one area of the state to another. That exception was granted.

I know of one car club that only has one jud

I think the Club and the meet chairs have done a good job of setting up the special awards methods at the 45th Anniversary meet, and that it should be a little different than a meet for show and judging awards, if they can incorporate both systems...go for it.

The judging for all "National" and Anniversary Meets are the same. The process, criteria and form are all identical. It has always been that way.

It is the awards that are different. It is very confusing and inaccurate to contend that the judging is somehow different.

I say "Special" because many people target the Anniversary Meets for the initial display of a restoration. It is the Meet where competition is normally the keenest. In the past most Anniversary Meets have been structured the same as the Middle West meets with a Tuesday … Friday schedule and one major tour day. That was essentially the same at Grand Junction. So the only significant difference is the number of registrants.

I see two problems with John’s suggestion. First is the time it takes to present the awards at the ending banquet. Thought it would not take twice the time to present both 1-3 and then Junior, Senior, Preservation awards it surely would take more. If Grand Junction is an example, with ~100 vehicles judged and twice that number only displayed. The other is giving the impression that it is only a bigger Area type meet (like Middle West). If members feel that way then how many will travel thousands of miles to attend?

The VCCA already has a problem with people stepping forward to plan and execute Meets. It was also the case with the 45th Anniv. Meet. If we downgrade the Anniversary Meet then it will make it harder to get the necessary leadership. I suspect that the 50th will not be a problem but the 55th surely will be. In fact I will not be surprised if there was no 55th.

I am just wondering why some long time members did not attend the GJ Meet? Wasn’t it “Special” enough?

Why didn't I attend you ask.

I didn't read anything in the G & D that sparked my interest.

I didn't want to add 3,000 miles to my car and take two weeks to do it.

I have spent several vacations in Colorado and had no desire to return.

My schedule was filled with the Early Six Cylinder Chevrolet Tour, two VMCCA Tours, three AACA Tours, and the VCCA Central Meet.

To me the Anniversary Meets I have attended and worked on are nothing more than a larger Central Meet or Middle West Meet with some different people, different location.

I don't know what the answer is but we must be missing something when the Model A Club can draw over 800 registrations every year and they only represent four years of vehicles.

And cost is a big factor too! Many people in the VCCA, believe it or not, don't have the cash flow or the time available to drive 1,000 or 2,000 miles one way to an Anniversary Meet, pay for motels for a week and a half, food, the high price of gas, the registration fee, and etc.

:( :( :(

Amen...

That is a fact about the cost. I met several members at G.J. That flew in, and had to bum rides everywhere there was an event. I don't think I would go if that had to be the case for me. I have just as much enjoyment at the Area 6 sponcered events. and don't spend half as much money. The 45th Anniversary meeting staff had their hands full, then to top off the events, several deadbeat members?, took advantage of the strained security and caused problems that gave some of the paying members a bad view of the club as a whole. and the awards dinner didn't come close to giving enough recognition to those that worked the event, due to the length of time it would have taken.

I believe that I would rather spend my time and money attending a different area of the country's National meet & shows every year and skip the Anniversary meet held every 5 years. I also probably will either drive a later model Vintage Chevrolet with power and air or modern iron, rather than driving or trailering an older car.

We need to plan events for the older cars all around the country rather than everyone trying to attend a single National Four cylinder tour in the mountains.(IMHO)

Mr. Mack has some good points to discuss. The Anniversary Meet might be too far and/or too expensive for most of us to attend. An idea has come to me to consider having Regional Meets every five years instead of an Anniversary Meet. Before all of you want to kick me out of town, and elsewhere, consider a Western Regional, Eastern Regional, Central and South? If we would have had a celebration out east, midwest, west and south or southeast would more people have attended those instead of asking all of us to go to Grand Jct., Co? I am basing this on the AACA model. I feel that Flint for 2011 or 2012 is special and all of us need to come together for that, once in a lifetime event. However, after 2011, maybe we should consider offering National Regional meets. This motion came to us a few years ago at the National Board meeting but we didn't quite grasp the concept. I feel we have a better idea now. As our membership has gotten older I feel we can not expect them to travel more than 6 to 7 hundred miles for a meet. It puts a strain on the person and the vehicles. What do you all feel about this? Happy Holidays.

Steve

Steve,

Just to clarify.....

If I understand you correctly, you're saying the once every five year "natl" meet in one location (like the meets that were in GJ, Springfield, Rapid City, etc.) would become FOUR "natl" meets in four different geographic locations?? Sort of four separate national meets... one in each of the 4 (general) areas of north, south, east and west?? And like the current natl meet scheduling, this would happen every five years, taking the place of the one natl meet.....

Before I even throw in my 2 cents, I want to be sure that's what you're saying.....

Bill.

I'm in favor of Steve's proposal.......three or four geographical National Meets every five years would be cool. Sure would save a lot of time and money for the average club member. However, I really think that first the VCCA needs to redefine Regional Meets vs. National Meets. For example, the Northwest Meet that is held in the Pacific Northwest every year should be called a Regional Meet, not a National Meet, because it is hosted by a local Region. A meet that is hosted by the national VCCA should be called a National Meet like the meets that Steve is suggesting. Once the VCCA gets the terminology down concerning a National Meet vs. a Regional Meet then step two should be Steve's proposal.

I believe that the Early V8 Ford Club has a similar program. It is my understanding that they have three National Meets per year.....one each in the West, Central and East. And, every five years they cancel the three National Meets for that year and they have an Anniversary Meet in Dearborn.

:)

We have National Meet all over the country now. We have the Northwest Meet, The Middlewest Meet,The Central Meet as JYD said. The only difference is that local regions are the host. The local regions raise the money and pay all the bills. This has been going on since 1964 when the Miami Valley Region hosted the First Central Meet. We had 65 vehicles from 13 states and two of them, a 1936 and 1932, were driven from California to Urbana, Ohio.

These are National Meets by the fact that they use the National Judging formas and classes. This is more than the Anniversary Meets do now. If Steve's proposal would go through would VCCA pick up the tab for 4 or 5 meets around the country? I think not. There is a problem covering the expenses every five years.

Steve mentioned doing it the way AACA does it. They furnish all the awards for all of the Judging Meets that are sanctioned by AACA. Is VCCA ready to do that?

If some of these one day car shows were changed to be three or four day meets with tours, seminars, judging, and an awards banquet each area would have a National Meet. This could be required before VCCA would sanction the event. We have no rules stating what a meet should be.

Just some of my thoughts.

I feel the VCCA should pick up the tab for all National Meets. Regions in the area should help with labor and sponserships/boosters.

Steve's proposal is a good one and I'm more likely to attend a National Meet every year than an anniversary meet every five years. If we stay with five year anniversary meets in one location we may want to consider changing to a "best in catagory" by attending members, much like a people's choice award. I say this because it seems like anniversary meets are for meeting new people and touring places that you may never get to see again. Judging of cars seems to be secondary.

In regards to the Flint meet, we may want to consider that a "special meet" and try a people's (members) award. It might be a good place to try something new.

One thing the national board must do is establish some rules. Rules for hosting a meet. Rules for hosting a tour. Rules for hosting a car show.

I have been involved in hosting an AACA Glidden Tour and an AACA Grand National Meet. I have also been involved in hosting a MARC National Meet. Both of these organizations have rules to follow. If you don't follow the rules you don't host.

In VCCA every meet or tour does it's own thing. Even at the Anniversary Meet they don't follow the guidelines. Guidelines are just suggestions you may or may not follow. Rules are to be followed.

Having both junior and senior cars in a class would bring SIX cars into competition.At the present time many classes have only one or two cars.Three car has almo become an exception.I am all for leaving it the way it is.
One thing that should change though is that the points follow the regional judging standards - ie at least 900 for FIRST place,etc....

42 Bill, yes you interpreted my thoughts on a National Meet every 5 years in different geographical regions. I would also consider a possibility that, on an Anniversary year, that we might not have Area Meets at all to encourage members to attend the only show in town, so to speak. For example an Eastern National Meet, A Southern National Meet, a Central National Meet and a Western National Meet. Area Meets could be held as well but maybe for a much shorter time.

I have to disagree with Back Roads in terms of having rules about the length of a meet. The concept of a One-Day meet has not been warmly accepted by some but we need to see what our membership wants. There are parts of the country where it takes 4 hours to go 100 miles due to traffic. There are a lot of working people who are busting their keysters to make a living and can not afford to be away on a week trip to a meet. Maybe a three day meet or two day? We should not limit host regions from deciding what is best for their group.

It is important for all of us to check the pulse of what our members are able and willing to do. I am concerned about continuing a service that is not wished by those who want to participate.

I find novasscott's comments of a 4 region national every 5 years very appealing.Especially after the upcoming 50th Anniversary meet.I personally would be motivated to try and make at least one of these every 5 years.Also,the thought of the awards process being the same for anniversary or annual meet is not at all appealing to me personally.IMHO,the anniversary meets should continue any special award system currently in place.Provides motivation/challenge for a serious show goer to shoot for.My 2 cents.Jim

SOME THOUGHTS:

This thread really should be in the Regional VCCA Meets & Events, VCCA events managed by Regions.

If you have not attended a Judging School, served as a judge or had a car judged recently, little value will be assigned to your comments about judging. National interest has been generated and constant improvement has been noted. I suggest we let them continue to massage the fine points rather than complain/object about/to their product.

Location of Meets: Experience by the National 4-cylinder meet proved that the further you move the meet toward the East, the less total attendance and the normal attendees just have to drive further.

Distance traveled to a meet is proportional to the
Length. Example: the All Cal for 2007 is only 3 days. Too far (over 1000 miles), for such a short meet, for me to attend.

The Anniversary Meet has proven to be a viable solution for the past 45 years. Regional Meets held in the NW during an Anniversary Meet have been low key and provided those who chose not to attend the AM, a meet to attend. Regardless of the location of the AM it will provide a travel challenge for the western part of the country.

There are many meets that are available for the “driving” members. Among these are the National 4-cylinder Meet, the early 6-cylinder, the Wood Tour, Three Main Bearing Tour, and the NW Meet, just to name a few, in the western part of the country. In fact a meet that provides for judging is in short supply.

In the Midwest, the Southern Spring Tour has proven extremely popular. The only shortcoming is the lack of a judging ingredient.

The only area lacking in both “driving” meets and “judging” meets is in the NE and SE.

Anniversary Meets are an opportunity for attracting a large number of cars and owners. The various classes in the Judging Manual are based on a very large population. As someone pointed out earlier, this is a special opportunity to present a new restoration to many sets of eyes, and a chance to have your work evaluated

The Anniversary Meet is a place for you to meet eye to eye some of your TA’s for example, and mingle with numerous vendors that you have done business with over the last 4 years. Meet and visit with many friends you meet at previous meets. In particular, our fellow members down under, up above, and out there.

If the AM has a fault it is being filled with TOO many opportunities. It is just not possible to participate in the many tours, seminars, judging, and fellowship.

And finally, a very serious error was made in the plans for the 45th AM. In the advertising that was placed in the G&D it only mentioned two tours and you had to choose one of those. I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT SOME MEMBERS DID NOT ATTEND BECAUSE OF THE APPARENT LACK OF MORE TOURING OPPORTUNITIES. Yes, there were several optional tours available at the meet; however it was too late for those that place touring high on their list. See my notes above. The activity list was running over at the meet, but was not at all evident in the advertising.

I WISH ONE AND ALL A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR.

Ray, I must be confused. You mention the 4 Cylinder Meet, The Early Six Cylinder Tour, and the Three Main Bearing Tour and then mention there is a shortage of Judging. It is my understanding that Tours are for touring and Meets are for Judging. I have been on all of the Early six Cylinder Tours and hosted one of them. There is no Judging on our tours.

When you mentioned the Four Cylinder Meet did you intend to call it the Four Cylinder Tour? I don't believe I have read about a Four Cylinder Meet.

We have the Central Meet in this area for Judging. We draw vehicles from Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Maryland, Kentucky, Canada, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee. Probably some that I forgot. The location of this meet moves around to Regions all around the area. We draw about 100+ vehicles every year.

It may be that I don't understand the difference between a Tour and a Meet. I also think there is a difference between a Meet and a Car Show.

Back Roads, a very good point. The National 4-Cylinder is a Tour and not a Meet.



Again, you are correct on your observation.

The point I was trying to make is that there are very few oportunities to attend a gathering that offers judging. At least the Anniversary Meets cover that subject.

I have to agree with Ray's feelings on this, I can't say it any better than Ray did. We do not have a "Grand National" so the AM is pretty much it. It is the only time that all vehicles are head to head in a class. It is the only event where an owner of an existing HPOCF car can compete in class judging and not jeopordize the HPOCF status. My car was fresh out of the box, I don't think I would have brought it to GJ if it were for normal VCCA National Awards. I still would have attended but I would have flown in, and left the car at home.

I understand how some member's feel about the cost but it is what it is. I have heard this excuse for years for not attending an event, but either you are going to go or not. I am not saying it was a cheap trip, (we pulled our trailer over (8,000 miles) but again who thought it would be? We have an expensive hobby, in every way. I know right now I am deciding which events are in the budget for 2007, I can't afford them all either, so I have to pick and choose

I did grow up in the hobby, but my Father and I enjoy the hobby in different ways, he has always enjoyed (and still does) things at the local level and never had a desire to go outside of that, and that is fine we both have fun in our own way.

This AM was well attended exceeded our projections for attendance so I am a little confused by members who did not even attend the AM saying that we should not have AM's anymore, or that the National should pick up the cost. The attendence at GJ not reflect those statements. It is a more than a show/tour it is sort of a family reunion. If you have not been to a AM then you might not understand that.

I do want to ad to one of Rays comment's and clarify a few things

"The only area lacking in both “driving” meets and “judging” meets is in the NE and SE."

I can only speak for the NE, A Combined Multi-day judging/tour event is very hard to put on in this Area for several reasons. One is the cost of hotels, a nice hotel in the summer here in the NE will run near $175+ a night. We have a a very dense population from DC through Boston, making driving tours pretty hard to put on... congestion! and traffic!! We have found that the one day shows work pretty well. I do want to clarify that there is usually one multi-day combined event in either Area 8,10, or 11 each year along with at least one single day event in one of the other Area's. We usually do have a driving tour open to all Chevrolet's. We have found it works better for us here in the NE. If a one day event were not allowed then nothing would happen, which really would not be a positive thing either. Participation is a good and we need to promote it any way we can. My point is things are done different in different parts of the country and it works. The bottom line is that we promote participation and follow our mission statement.
Have a Happy Holiday
John Mahoney

John and Ray, You both mention that there is a lack of Judging Meets in VCCA. That is the very reason I believe the Judging at the AM should be using the standard VCCA Judging Classes, Judging Form, and Awards.

If the AM is the only meet a person may attend and they receive an award the only thing they have to show for it is a trophy. If we used the standard Judging Awards they would receive an Oval they could attach to their vehicle as well as a trophy. I speak from experience. I have been there and done that. For the vehicles that have the Ovals we could develope a Tab stating Anniversary Meet Award.

I can see where there should be uniform and consistant rules for judging the cars that are in competition and the awards should be related to the cars' appearance and condition relating to originality.
At the Anniversary meet and touring event or a National meet and tour, those of us that don't enjoy the competition and the effort to move up through the classes to the summit, judge us by the same rules, and when there are 3 or more cars in a class, award a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and a peoples choice for three eras, 4 cylinder, six cylinder, and v/8 cars, the same classes for trucks along with an in restoration award for project cars, whether hauled in or driven.
At a National meet and tour or an Anniversary Show & Touring Meet I think that those that would rather show their car, than tour should enter the Competition Show part, without having to enter the tours, although, entering tours would be optional, and those of of us that chose to tour, enter the touring events and collect our passport miles if we wish, and an option would be to display for places 1st, 2nd, third and peoples' choice awards could do so.

If we want more of our members to participate, have events that span the members tastes and wishes, and have several smaller events scattered around the country, even some in Europe, the UK and Down under, with the locals organizing the events under the loose guidance and some financial support of the National Club rather than having to follow a strict set rules, except for the uniform rules for Judging and the Uniform rules for Touring Passport milage.
The organizers of the events should be able to conduct the show, events and tours without having everything written in an instruction book, step by step and hour by hour. (IMHO)

P.S. Yes, I have attended a judging school keep up with the rules,and know the process, even though I care less about judging someone elses car or having someone picking over my car to compare it with another group of cars or someones' set of standards, I like to attend shows and look at the cars but as soon as I see all the nice shiny pristene cars, I am ready to hit the road and take a tour!

An couple of points need to be understood by everyone. First is the financial support of meets by the "National" VCCA. (I put the quotes because that is what the overall organization is called even thought it has International members and Regions.) Is it fair to all members to have them pay for awards or meets that they do not attend? Do those that can not or choose not to attend need to have some of their annual dues support those that do? So far the intention of the BOD is for each meet to be funded by the people who attend and vendors and individuals that choose to donate. That was the case for the 45th Anniv. Meet in Grand Juction. It is true that the "National" treasury supplied "seed" money to get the meet off financially but that was returned once sufficient meet generated funds became available.

Second is can we get enough qualified people to lead and work on these meets? We had some difficulty finding people to lead and work on the 45th Anniv. meet. That said we did have an extremely well qualified and hard working team at GJ. But if the VCCA now has 4 to 6 Regional Anniversary Meets as proposed where are the leaders and workers coming from? It takes time, effort and $$ out of the pocket of the volunteers to make a meet successful. Are you willing to do that? How many other members will do the same?

Then there are several other issues. How many people will attend more than one of these meets? Will this mean that some people will not have the opportunity to meet members from other Regions? International members? What about the seminars? How many Technical Advisors will attend each? Do multiple meets dilute the expertise that would be available at a single meet? How about the swap meet?

Just remember the meets are really big family reunions. They attempt to have events and activities to appeal to many VCCA members. Tours, judging, seminars, meals, free time, swap meet, etc. If we take steps to reduce the appeal of meets then members will not attend and the meets will slowly decline and fade away.

I'm confused. At the Anniversary Meet in 2001, I noticed in the G & D ( Volume 40, Number 11 ) that mutiple cars won 1st place in the same class. For example, in Class "L" which covers 1937 and 1938, a 1937 Convertible won First Place Gold. Also in Class "L", a 1938 Coupe won First Place Gold. Also at the same Anniversay Meet in 2001, in Class "M", a 1939 2 door won First Place Gold ( a beautiful car owned by one of our favorite Chevy Chatter members )and a 1940 4 door won First Place Gold. Class "M" covers both 1939 and 1940. That does NOT sound like we used the same rules in 2001 that we used in 2006 at GJ. I judged at both AM's.

The classes are broken down by a single year for AM....with some exceptions.Thats another reason that following the regional Jr/Sr awards would not "work".
I have attended all but one and thats how the my cars were classified.One year per class.

Sorry Mr toolman....just looked at the G&D...Did not notice how certain SELECT classes were combined this time around....and was not done in a uniform manner.Example the 1937 and 1938 class L cars were combined....same for the 1939-1940 class M...The go up to 1948-54 classes with only one car in each class in some years???whats that all about??

Then the 1955-58 class S was broken down to S1 for 1955,S2 for 1956,S3 for 1957 and S4 for 1958??

1962 was V! and only one car judged and 1962 -63 V2 and only two cars judged.Why was V broken down into two classes with only three cars entered???

I think this requires an explaination for the judging committee.

To add to what Chip is saying about who pays. I believe the Model A Restorers Club has some good ideas. one of them is that there is a fee to have your vehicle judged over and above the registration fee. This helps pay for the awards.

MARC has one National Meet each year. They are hosted by local chapters. They have about 800 vehicles every year. They have all the other activities that we have at our AMs.

The year we hosted here in Dayton we had a book of six tours. The members were free to take any tour any day they wanted or not take any.

Another thing I think is great is the mandatory tour. I believe it must be a minimum of seven miles. This is the day after judging. If you do not drive the tour you could have the best Model A in the world but you would not receive an award.

Just some food for thought. I believe we can learn from others.

Another thing to consider is the age factor of the VCCA members. Many members are in their late 60's, or they are in their 70's and 80's. Do they really have time to wait for an AM five years down the road? And, if the AM is held too far away from where they live and they can't make it due to the driving distance, then they have to wait another five years to possibly attend the next AM. One solution, (and I know that some board members are not going to like this because it goes against the "good old boy" theory) is to have one "National" Meet (or AM Meet if you want to call it that) sponsored by the VCCA each year and rotate it around the country, i.e. west, east, central, north and south. That way every few years the VCCA sponsored meet will be held in an area close enough that a member can probably drive there in a day. Right now, with the AM meet held only every five years, and due to the geographical location rule that meets will not be held in the west or east, these older fellows that are currently in their 70's and 80's could be dead by the time the next AM rolls around.

:( :( :(

I think JYD's idea of having a National Meet every year and rotateing from Area to Area on a regular cycle is the way to go.



As to the "National Club" kicking in some financial support for these "National Meets" is also fair. The National Board should be able to raise money from national Vendors and have a united front to get donations. After all the local Regions carry the load for their own events, never getting any National support except for a limited size advertizment in the "National Magazine"
The members of VCCA that do not belong to a Region make up a large part of the National membership and many attend the National and Regional Meets, so why have a National Club structure with an omnipotent BOD, just assign every member to a Geographical Region and do away with the National BOD, Magazine and National Dues expense. just something to think about.......If the Regions are going to have to bear the cost of every meet all the National Club structure, as it is formatted now, is good for is making rules and collecting dues....

After all into who's coffers did the Donations and Raffel ticket money go? for the 45th Meet? Nothing came to the Lone Star Region's coffers, really the money raised by the Regions goes to the National Club in case the Region folds, which really makes all of the VCCA funds National Club assets.

JYD there are two meets that I have attended that operate the same as the AM. They are the Central and the Mid-West Meets. There may be others in other areas of the country. Judging, Seminars, Judging School, Vintage Clothing, Swap Meet,Ladies Lunch, Free Time, and tours. All that is needed is to call them a National Meet. The olnl difference I see is the number of participants. I would like to see more than one tour planned for those who don't participate in Judging.

Actually, I think those individual meets are hosted by a region and not the national VCCA......and the judging, I believe, is different as well. What I am talking about is one national meet that is hosted by the national VCCA and not a region, with all of the attributes of an Anniversary Meet.....including the same number of days and etc. and rotated around the country each year. The other meets such as the two you described, and the Northwest Meet, would then be considered "Regional" meets since they are hosted by a local region and not the national VCCA.

:) :grin:

Apparently I can't put into words what I am trying to say so it can be understood. The only difference between the Anniversary Meets and the Central / Mid West / North West Meets it that these meets use the Judging classes printed on the VCCA Judging form and present awards as per the schedule on the Judging form. If the BOD would approve it one of these meets or any other meet following the same pattern could be designated the National Meet in any given year. It could be rotated around the country.

The National Meets of AACA and MARC are hosted by local Regions of Chapters with the support and rules of the national organization. They have a waiting list of local clubs wanting to host. Tha AACA Grand National is hosted by local clubs with the support of the national officers.

I know I've expressed this opinion before, but my opposition to the class judging at the anniversary meet is a practical one - we'll put a great strain on the Awards Coordinator (me at present) if we require all those tabs, ovals, preservation boards, and miniatures in one place. We would probably spend more than we do on the special 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place trophies we use at the anniversary meets.

Personally, I like it that the Anniversary Meets are held only every five years. That makes them more special and gives them more of a "must attend" atmosphere. Other clubs have national meets once a year. I doubt I'd want to spend the time and money if our meets were once a year, but I'll make the effort and spend the money once every five years.

Since the Anniversary Meets are different and special, it would reduce their prestige and discourage attendance if we awarded the same ovals and tabs that we do at the Area meets. We should offer special awards that commemorate the anniversary. You can get the ovals and tabs any time, but you can only get a 45th anniversary trophy once.

Even if the Anniversary Meets stay the way they are and held only once every five years, rotate the meet around the country to include the east coast and the west coast instead of keeping it in the corridor that it has been since 1991. The way it is now, those that live in the central part of the US have the advantage on the driving distance since the meets are no longer held on the east coast or the west coast.

:( :( :(

As a person who has been a Co-Chair of two Anniversary Meets, involved in several "National" meets and also a VCCA Board member for 21 years, I feel qualified to speak to this issue. First as I have written several times the time and expense to conduct a meet the size of an AM is a major hurdle. "The Boss" will not let me calculate what I cost us in $$$ to volunteer to be a Co-Chair. I can assure you that it is in four figures to the left of the decimal point. The there are the countless hours spent planning, arranging, coordinating and participating. That is not to speak of the stress and angst that naturally comes with the job.

It is sure easy for someone to sit at the computer keyboard and make proposals. I do it too. It is another to step forward and actually get things done. I have done that too.

If enough people are willing to step forward and commit to create, manage and host another meet of the size and scope of the Anniversary Meet I am sure the Board will seriously consider it. Not being a current Board Member I can not vote on it but find it difficult to support any more given the past performance and difficulty in finding enough qualified volunteers to put on the AMs that we have held to date.

I really don't understand what is missing by having six or so "National" meets each year. They are regionally located, use the same judging process. The classes have been different than the AMs because of the expected number of vehicles in each class. If GJ is a omen of the future that may change. With ~100 vehicles judges (similar in number to a Central or MiddleWest Meet) versus the expected 200+ there was not the need to expand the classes to permit additional awards.

I am still open minded on improvements and suggestions. It is new ideas that are needed to keep this club vibrant.

The reason that the last four meets have been held in the locations selected is because of the number of sites proposed. The preferences of the Chairs and the fact that the two meets held on the coasts were two of the less attended. GJ was considered to be a Western meet for all but the Left Coast people. Since I have only once travelled less than 1000 miles to Anniversary Meet they are all too far for my preference but I went anyway! Been to all so far. God willing will attend several more and enjoy myself despite the windshield time.

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When a proposal packet was sent to the site committee for the 1996 Anniversary Meet to be held in Southern Oregon, along with the list of tours, events, a copy of the meet logo and etc., we received a letter back from the committee stating that Oregon was rejected "due to the wrong geographical location".

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Right on Chipper. I have worked of four of the Anniversary Meets. There is one thing I would ask. I have never been a chair but worked on committees. If it is not the case I would suggest when a proposal is submitted that the group making the proposal have a person on line to be the chair as well as all the other details.

It is my understand that at present the chairman is selected before the site is selected. Is this correct or not? I remember being asked to be chair one time and the site and date was already selected. It was the date of our son's wedding. Guess where I was.

The recently past meet had the location selected before the Co-Chairs were selected. It can go either way.

Part of the rationale on meet location is to move east to west, north to south so that they are not all in the same area of the country. As I wrote before the two "coastal" meets were less attended and the Board got more negative feedback than the others. A major problem is the number of locations that can realistically host a meet. 11 locations were considered and evaluated before GJ was selected. Though not ideal it had most of what was needed and the community really wanted us to come. Colorado Springs received a lot of support and they VCB wanted us to come but the room situation, location of venues and then trying to get tours in and out with the traffic was a killer. Many others had a few requirements but real problems with others. I know the Board is trying hard to work out a site for the 2011 Meet. Flint Michigan is proving to be a real challenge and Detroit, Pontiac and other possible sites will make touring really interesting. Anyone want to volunteer to help? I am sure the site committee will welcome some expertise.

It is my understanding that Flint is a done deal for 2011 and that is where it will be. Is that not true?

The last two posts about 2011 AM @ Flint are "interesting".....

I suppose the location is always open for discussion until a "contract" has been signed. Maybe no "contract" has been signed for the 2011 location / Flint ???

Bill.

No doubt the board received a lot of negative feedback on the AM held in Santa Rosa in 1986. One reason could be that it was a highly disorganized fiasco. Even before the meet was held in 1986 things were disorganized and up in the air. Was the meet going to be in Reno or in Santa Rosa......Santa Rosa or Reno? Once the site was selected the disorganization continued. Yes, the board did receive negative feedback about the one and only Anniversary Meet ever held on the west coast, but you can't blame the negativity on the west coast itself since the meet was doomed by those in charge, and also because of the many pre-existing problems created by the mass disorganization many months prior to the Anniversary Meet.

Both the west coast and the east coast deserve to have Anniversary Meets since there are so many VCCA members that live in these areas, and there are many wonderful things to see as well. How about our many VCCA friends in Canada? They too deserve consideration for the possibility of hosting an Anniversary Meet.

:) :cool2:

Hi Guys I hope that I don't rub anyone the wrong way with what I am about to say But! I have attended 2 AM meets the 25th at Santa rosa and the 45th at Grand Junction while I enjoyed both I think that we as a club need to mend a lot of fences ,this time I also attended the combined 4cyl tour and early six tour at Montrose only 60 miles away from GJ I was very surprized when a good number of those who attended this tour were not travelling on to the National Anniversary meet instead they went to another meet ?? I think that we need to address this, here are good members with some very good cars who turned away by there own choice from joining in with"OUR CLUBS "anniversary may I sugessest that the AM committee and the Nation Board contact some of these members to see what we can do to make the next AM better. For my part I think that we can always improve and learn from our mistakes we seem to be pushing people away not uniting them for our common interest OLD CHEVROLETS AND GOOD FRIENDS .As an international member since 1979 I would like to see the AM hosted all over the country and perhaps during that year some of the other meets be put on hold as maybe there is too many choices .I have read some realy good comments in this thread and it isn't easy to please everyone but collectively I feel that we are up to the challenge. Jim #20372