VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Give Me Your Opinion

We have been contacted by a GPS manufacturer that has offered VCCA the opportunity to market their GPS units to members and non-members. The VCCA would make a profit for the General Fund on each sale.

What do you think ?

Would you buy one ?

Would this be any different then the club selling cookies or Avon ??

Give me your input, PLEASE.

Joe Smith
Board Member

Hi Joe,

If they put the VCCA Chat Group logo on it, I would buy one for my wife.

...A thought would be that I'm not sure if this would cross the line to open the doors to every vender from here to timbucktoo.

...mmmm...not sure...?

RayG

Hi Joe,

Not sure what relationship the club would have with the GPS seller. Are we basically selling him advertising? Not sure if we have ever considered selling more ads in the G&D, although we have an insurance company and a car manufacturer already placing ads.

Would this GPS company give membership a discount by presenting a membership number?

Don't we already have an agreement with a tire company that is attempting to get mass sales from the membership?

My decision to buy would largely depend upon the price and the quality of the product.

I consider buying this as something similar to buying any other "fund raiser" item that the Regions sell. See HERE

It would be classy to have the VCCA logo imprinted on the GPS.

--Bill

A good GPS receiver coupled and interacting with a good mapping program like DeLorme Street Atlas working on a laptop is very useful for routing tours and trips. The DeLorme mapping program and a GPS included is around $100, you have to furnish the laptop. But if you go that "route" you can do tour mapping on your home computer also. It makes a neat toy.

P.S. if you buy one with the VCCA logo, make sure the logo don't get changed any way soon.

Oh! Joe, it sounds like it may be a good move!
It may be a good way to advertize the club and also keep us from getting lost. (I hardly ever get lost...I just explore a lot of strange territory going from point A to point B, via point C, point D and E..)

In the long view this does NOT sound like a good plan to me.... interferes with a marketing strategy plan, diminishes the value of G&D & VCCA, forever.

In marketing making up for LOST value takes about 5+ years of heavy investment because "perceptions {positioning} die slow & hard." VCCA has worked hard for years to increase it's base value, doing this would work against that respected position.

Offering FREE ads has just that value in the market place; FREE!!! And we all know the lesson on being known as a "Free Gift" has no value really.

Another way to at "Sales commission Advertising" is, why don't we have the co. give us $2,000.00 per month and for every sale we'll give then back $100.00. Same thing.


It all Goes along with this view:
My view is "No" These ideas seem reasonable on the surface but the problems can linger for a Long-long time.

I say no because a "Lead-in” or "commission based" ads where potential revenue is based on a "sale" have not shown a valuable return over the years.

There are 3 primary reasons & 3 follow up reasons:

3 Primary Reasons:
1. There is very little a "club" like VCCA can do to audit the process. VCCA lack's personnel, experience to manage this process.
2. A "partner ad" plan like this often increases cost's & removes profit.
3. [/i]The Seller has No Investment, there for No Risk, but VCCA has Risk & Costs.

3 Follow up reasons:
1. VCCA has No-Control over when and if a sale is made. or what constitutes a sale.
2. If VCCA is going to "partner" with someone it S/B offered to long time relationships, not new ones.
3. If there's a page limit to G&D, we may be offering a "free ad & page” when we could sell another ad page.

As an over all strategy this type of "sale" often diminishes the VALUE of a publication by offering "free" commission ads.

In addition it can and will undermine any further/future opportunities to $ell addition ad$ because everyone will want the $ame thing, FREE ad$. Therefore removing our base $trength {clout}.

A bigger point; UNTIL the Marketing Team is ready & The PLAN is written, accepted & in place {{3-6 Mo.} by the BOD, it would be a good idea to not accept or solicit any "new "ads. Primarily because the NEW PLAN may call for strategies that are undermined or altered if contracts are approved before we know where we are going.

I would rather see VCCA have a clear understanding of our plans, path & goals and an approval of a REAL MARKETING PLAN before VCCA accepts, approves or enters into any new revenue areas. Specifically speaking, it will be VERY difficult to write a strategic marketing plan if other "process's" and methods are in place. It is ALWAYS better to plan & accomplish, than react.

[u][/u][i]So my view is no {duh}, not at this time.

I do not run G&D, VCCA or the Chat site, but were I singled out I would tell them the same. Simply stated, is to short term with No Guarantees and not in the best overall interest of VCCA.

Thanks for asking for my view,
Michael41, a 6 volt guy in a 12 volt world......

Ok Mike I read your reply, now please explain some of what I read

Mike, what is VCCA's marketing strategy plan? What exactly is VCCA's base value?
All that I know that VCCA has in the way of real Assets is The G&D magazine, the web sites and an "Library", maybe a hand typed set of 3 x5 cards that is our membership list and any donations and non used membership dues. I am not trying to be funny, I really would like to have a clear idea of what values that could be lost, when I really don't recognize all that much "base value" that we could lose, except for our reputation , it is my thought that the only real value belongs to our members that have invested their time, money, and efforts to keet the club afloat. Those values belong to these members, not to the corporation known as VCCA.
If you don't want to discuss this in a open forum ,that is fine.

MORE INFORMATION - visit www.alliancegps.com
This is not the GPS you buy at Wal-Mart. It is kind of a combination GPS & LoJack. You mount it in the car and use it like a GPS to find your way. It is also has the On-Star type feature in that if your car is stolen or if you have so many cars you forget where you have them, you can trace the car and find it. A lot better then LoJack that only works in some major cities, this system works everywhere. Personally, I do not worry about an Antique car getting stolen because they are locked in garages. However, it would be nice to have one on the trailer and the Suburban. They tell me that we can get a 20% reduction in car insurance - I think they mean modern cars, I do not think we could get that on Antique cars.

I agree with Mike41 - dangerous precedent - giving someone free advertising and they pay VCCA a commission on sales. How do we know what they sold ?

I think we should pass on the opportunity. But encourage them to buy ad space in the G&D.

VCCA Marketing Plan will be developed over the next several weeks. after it is 75% complete it will be presented to other marketing Team members for review, after adjustments made and it will be presented to the BOD for review & approval.

So at this time, we don't have one.........but I am doing some research, chatting with other folks, studying groups like VCCA, other car clubs and trying to put my hands on all the data I can. This will help us create a base of knowledge, and from that base we can plan our "attack."

Overall our "Marketing Plan" should present a plan, dates, costs, guidelines, measurements tools, benchmarks and goals. And it will {hopefully] take into consideration VCCA's present Image, PR Campaign, Image development, Positioning, Partnerships, Target, Recruiting and a few other sundry items.

[i][/i][b]So IF any one has any data/knowledge/names/general info on Other Clubs, PLEASE send them to me asap.

By info I mean, Names & contact info on other clubs, BOD & Member names, Location {s}, Dues, members ages, Kind of cars, Fees, Tour, Event info, and anything else that will help me, understand them.

VCCA is also going to do a survey of it's own members so watch for that to come your way in about 6-8 weeks.

You can send it to me via this site, direct.

Thanks :)
Michael41
aka: Mike41

I have reservations about accepting such offers. I can forsee a "request" from the advertiser to place popup ads here or on the main page.

Dan.

I'm not so sure that we couldn't use a little more advertising. It may help to defray costs. Other club web sites do it and since we are talking about expansion and recognition we might consider selling space here to our favorite vendors.
Leaving out the pop-up and animated kind.

I am only reluctant to agree because I can forsee a a push for popups as THE form of advertising the company wants. Because there will be greater exposure on the web than in print. On the other hand the income from advertising would help defray costs.

Dan.

Answers for Mrmack

Well I just typed and lost some answers to Mrmack's questions. As well as 5 paragraphs of information about Marketing and how VCCA is currently suffering from a weak & often inaccurate image and poor positioning in our market place.

I do NOT feel like retyping so if you wanna know what I know and how I found out, or how VCCA LOST $40,000.00 for our Anniversary meet call me.

I will tell you these quick facts, doing some reasearch I found out our own Insurance carrier though we were "about 4,000 members." And a senior editorial writer for our hobby, with over 30 years experience has NEVER seen a G&D. Sad, very very sad, and unfair to all of us.

As far as "advertising" & PR goes, we don't have ANY. If we did and if it was effective we would NOT be suffering from a weak inaccurate image and poor positioning.

So it's safe to say VCCA is way behind others with in the hobby market place who have less value. And we ALL suffer because of these issues and others.

The car hobby is FUN, as is a VCCA, but not when you have a weak image. Takes the fun {& money} out of it when people do not know you, do not think your a "top club" and do not support you they way they should.

Michael41

Mike, that $40000 figure DID get my attention!

Sorry about that problem with the typeing. Been there done that.

From the experience running the poster ads in the web site of CCON for more than 3 years, I may inform you that we did not want/accept pop-up ads, moving banners or other ads wearing out the pleasure of reading a quiet page. But in order to give more advertizers more time, we allowed the posters/ads to run in a circle, repeating after one circle and so on. So far we have had no known complaints as to that system, and the advertizers are satisfyied with their "hits" from users.

If you don't allow those (terrible) moving ads on the pages and for all vendors with no exception, they will have to accept that system or not having ads on the web site of VCCA.

I have a strong feeling there will be plenty of (valuable and wanted) vendors and sponsors really wanting the possibility to advertize on pages with so many visitors each week. (CCON has only 60 visitors ea. 24/7). When they use both the web and the G&D, they will have a very powerful campaign running towards all 8000 members.

So, go on and draw the headlines for use of ads on the web the sooner the better.

I think Mike41's request to hold off on new deals until the PR committee has had a chance to submit its plan is a reasonable request. I believe Joe was just checking the "wind direction" on this, but Mike41 makes some good points in his comments. I guess one way to sum it up is to say we need to first get the road map laid out before we decide which road to take, let alone which car we're drivin' today.

MrMack, I think assets are more than just tangible material things. Like you alluded to, our reputation can be an asset but it could also be a liability. That I believe is something Mike Welsh is trying to assess for his PR committee. A wise man once said, "a good name is worth all the gold in the world". Yes, I agree, the members are the value, but collectively we are all assets and so is our knowledge and expertise (or in my case lack thereof, cause I ask the stupid questions no one else will). I am not a marketing expert, and although I have done PR and marketing on a professional basis, I am no expert on the subject by any means. I defer to folks like you and Mike Welsh. I am not an advertising guy either. But, I am one to kick the tires and do whatever it takes to get the job done and have learned to look in the rear view once in awhile to see what I might have left behind. So, I am not sure of the whole asset thing and what it really means other than it sounds like we have Mike Welsh willing to share his expertise to help the VCCA with areas he sees improvement can be made. I think that is great, and I want to help him and the others do that any way I can. I am open for new ideas and I look forward to hearing more about the PR committee's plan for the VCCA.

So, Joe, I would respectfully say to your question, lets hold off for now until the PR committee has had a chance to present its plan. I Thank you for allowing me this opportunity to share my thoughts with you and the rest of the forum participants.

The decision is final We are not going to give free advertising and hope to get commissions. It was determined to be a dangerous precedent. What would advertisers that have paid think? They would want to switch to a commission system and eliminate the risk of the advertising expense with no orders. How would we know if the commissions were accurate?

I contacted the vendor and expressed the above thought. Now they are going to pay for an ad in the G&D. All worked out well.

Thank you Chat particpants for letting me use this forum to get membership feedback.

As long as the club is working on a long term business (five years sceduled), asking advertizing fees both in G&D and on the web pages "reasonable" both to club and vendors, it should end in a good solution. The fact that our club has 8000 members, and with a good potential not only for car items will also lead to higher fees on the web than in G&D when ads are allowed on the Chat.

But there is no need to accept banners, pop-ups and similars to get vendors interested. There may be changing ads, just like the G&Ds are changing on the web page now, but that should be the limit. The club should really believe it has a high value in the over-all market, and act accordingly. Stay firm and the money from vendors will come without "moving pages".

How many visitors are here each day, and how many registered users? Those figures are vital to vendors all over the world. I believe they are pretty high, and will strengthen the eager from vendors to pay market prices for their ads.