VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions Something is rotten in Denmark (Flint)

I am new to this club but not new to others so I have no basic knowledge here, but my two cents worth is on a subject of such volatility that we need to refrain from name slinging and keep it on a even keel. I feel that everything should be kept in the open even as hard as it may be. Jean Fink should respond to this forum and give her side. At these board meetings , minutes should be being taken and these minutes if I am right are open to the general membership, Board members you have the opportunity to hear from the membership on matters that does pertain to them so hear them and do your best to keep the forum constructive and positive in nature your leadership is needed right now good luck.

In response to Bill Barker's 3 suggestions for by-law changes, I make the following comments.

1. Your first suggestion is "that anyone who has a financial stake in the club should resign as a board member". How many board members receive financial compensation from the VCCA treasury? It seems obvious that the Fink Printing Company makes money from the VCCA. Does the President or any other position get paid? If so, then you might want to re-write your first suggestion.

2. There definitely should be a legally binding agreement between the VCCA board and the major expense for the VCCA - namely the Fink
printing company for the G & D.

3. Roles and responsibilities for anyone making more than $5,000 from the VCCA should be defined. That is a no brainer. However, it sounds like point #3 is merely an expansion of your second point - namely a legally binding agreement between the board and the printing company. Since we employ a printing business ( Dennis and Jean Fink ) to produce a major product for us ( the G & D ), then BOTH sides need to understand clearly what is expected, ie, roles and responsibilities for the employer which is the VCCA Board and the employee which in this case the Printing Firm - Dennis and Jean Fink ).

I will continue to watch this thread and I hope to see all of you in Grand Junction.

Just a quick reply... the difference between the two suggestions is that #2 is between an incorporated company (Fink Publishing, Inc) and the club.

Number 3 is for all "individuals" that receive money for services performed. This does not include reimbursements for expenses properly incurred, but rather for people who perform 1099 type "contracted services".

And since I started this ... number 1 is intended to correct an immediate problem which we have, which is about a current member who has a major financial interest in the club (to the tune of 75% of our income) AND is in the position of authority to influence and sway policy and financial decisions.

I am a National Board member and was in attendance at the meeting last weekend. I for one am pleased that a member of the audience has taken the initative to begin some dialogue about the chain of events that took place in Flint. I also am most concerned that the use of this public forum does not become the format for personal vendettas or character assassination. What FOTW has reported is correct.

Following the Board of Directors meeting last year in Portland, a committee consisting of 6 board members -facilitated by Bill Barker- worked to design a procedure and format that would allow the organization to improve its business practices by selecting a vendor to host a membership database, website and chat room. The board does not currently own an electronic database. Membership data is currently kept at Dennis Fink Printing on equipment owned by that company. Membership applications and renewals are taken care of by our current Membership Secretary Shirley Whitesell. The committee developed a proposal, discussed it with the full board, and a majority voted electronically to implement the committee recommendation. In Flint a motion was made to sign a contract with a selected vendor to begin work on the development of a new database.
The motion failed because of 3 reasons: 1) Jean Fink indicated she would not provide the database she believes she owns to the vendor for a transfer of membership data. She had previously told the commmittee, during its work session, that she would provide a one-time access to her database if we moved ahead with the project. 2) the cost of the project (about $1.40 a year per member following an intitial start up fee)seemed very high especially considering the limited resources we had at that time. 3) Jean indicated she would no longer perform any of the additional tasks she now performes other than those required to edit and publish the G&D. Consequently the vote to sign the contract failed.

Detailed minutes of the board activity in Flint will be printed in the G&D in the months ahead. I would encourage close reading of these minutes and any questions be directed to any board member.

What Bill Barker has said about written or implied contracts for services provided to the VCCA is right on the target. We must eliminate any existing or future conflicts of interest between board members and services provided.

The problems that have been discussed here certainly are the responsibility of the board, and I am hopeful that with encouragement from the membership, the Board of Directors will take the appropriate actions to make the needed changes.

Leigh Wilcox
Area III Director

i am encouraged by the dialog regarding the above issue, including input from multiple board members. Whoever FOTW is, we owe him/her a thank you for enlightening chatter participants of the problem at hand.mike

I can certainly understand FOTW's hesitation revealing him/herself. I would not want to "lose" my G&D either, it is a great publication! I anxiously await a response from Jean Fink, and a resolution.
Also, I agree that airing the dirty laundry on a public forum is not necessarily the best way, but it did start a good dialogue.

I don't understand FOTW's concern about losing the G and D.

His profile indicates his VCCA number is '12 years.' I suppose '12 years' means we're to presume he is a VCCA member. But who knows??

As I understand it, the G and D is included in VCCA membership. So, if FOTW really is a VCCA member, how could FOTW 'lose' his G and D??

On the other hand, maybe FOTW isn't a VCCA member and doesn't even get the G and D.

Lose it??????

Bill.

I believe that his reference to losing the G&D was in jest.

And how about the 'fear' of a knock on the door in the middle of the night!?!?!?!

Silly or jest or both or.........

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

42bill,

Lets not kill the messenger here. As this thread has progressed I've had a change of attitude and I now believe that we owe FOTW a debt of gratitude for his willingness to enlighten us all. I believe that he is a member of the VCCA. Why else would someone spend a day of his time in a meeting that would have little, if any, interest to him, take the time to record notes and then relay them to us, if he were not a member? Think about it!

I'm willing to give him (FOTW) his anonymity and I think he should attempt to keep it that way. He states that his home is Detroit which makes us neighbors. He has an obvious interest in the VCCA and there's a good chance that we know one another.

Thanks to Leigh Wilcox for adding more insight into the puzzle with his addition to this thread. With his input the whole subject becomes a little more clear. It's obvious that some things need to change.

Oldie,

In essence, I agree with you. It's just that I'm not a fan of secrecy, anonymity, etc. But, seemingly the important thing was to get the discussion started. Whoever FOTW may be, he did that.

My comments about FOTW 'losing the G and D' and 'getting a knock on the door' don't hold a candle to the importance of the issue(s) at hand. I remain concerned about the whole 'open forum' idea and how we all handle that.

Like most, I'm interested to learn more about all this and certainly hope that things get resolved "peacefully."

Bill.

Well it looks like I stirred up things a little. that is good that was my wish and it needed to be done. This is important. I think no one would ever have heard this information if he had to wait to see it in GnD because it would get edited / censured because we know who is in charge of that and they have there own agenda obviously from Flint. What shows up there will be boiled down so there is no hint of what really went on - like always before. There is no other realistic way members have available to learn this stuff if we are serious. where else can it possibly be discussed and it is unfortunate that it is a public forum but not illegal. May be dirty laundry in public is not great but it is the only way we have to do this.

I am proud and happy to see that some board members do care enough and are in here to try to help this situation not just ignore it. Of course these same ones were trying to fight the battle in Flint and we all owe them are thanks. and also Thanks for the private messages of support I am no hero but this needed to be done. may be my language was strong at first but I had to get your attention.

Mr Barker has said some strong things here that I sure think make sense. But I will be amazed if Jean Fink would ever answer any of this on the forum that’s not her way it looks like.

You can keep wondering who I am but I have said all I care too because of the knock on the door in the middle of the nite. silly or jest or both? well if you had been listening to what Fink was saying and how hard she came on you might not be sure which it was either! who knows she has a lot at stake it looks like.

12 years means I have been in the club that long maybe a few more than 12. if I wasn’t in the club why would I care and do all this typeing - in case you didn’t notice I am not real good at it.

Yes also it sounds like a earthquake or fire would put us out of business.

I am sincsere in wanting to help a good club see what is happening in the only way I can see to do it.

After reviewing all of the information regarding this issue I have come away with a few of my own thoughts. I do not know who is right and who is wrong, but I stand by these views.

1. VCCA membership must ALWAYS be informed and notified.
Every board meeting must be published. IE: what transpired, what goals were achieved, what and who voted on each issue, what topics were discussed, etc. A third party stenographer should take notes and provide the minutes to the membership.

2. VCCA is MY CLUB, NOT the Boards.
I have an emotional, financial and legitimate right to know, everything. As does each and every member.

3. Discussions and disagreements are healthy.
{If done Respectfully} They provide the opportunity and the motivation for positive and valuable changes.

4. Knowledge & Awareness have been gained.
Now we get to see what “The Board” members do with this opportunity. We'll see who stays & works things out and who cuts and runs.

5. Every VCCA member MUST conduct themselves with respect.
We should expect that each Board member do the same.

6. Poor, or odd behaviors creates to 95% of all life’s problems.

7. The Board is voted in and they can be voted out.

8. We now see, more clearly than ever, the reasons to vote & carefully review any candidate.

9. We get to see what people choose to focus on, the issue {s} or the vehicle that delivered them.

10. Every Board Member owes every VCCA member an apology.
We have a right to expect and believe the board will conduct themselves and OUR business in a meaningful, positive and respectful way. Obviously that did not happen. Even if no one is at fault it would be the "high road" to apologize. The foundation for this path is simply, The Board is responsible for The Board’s actions.

Thank you for this opportunity. And please let me know if I may assist this issue or process in any way.
Michael41

It was just brought to my attention in a private e-mail I should mention the following, pertaining to my comments above.

My business practice is traveling the country speaking on or providing training in Professional Business Ethics, Professional Behaviors & Methods, Communication Practices, Team Effectiveness and Leadership Roles & Responsibilities among other issues.

Therefore I address and encounter the type of issues the VCCA Board experienced on a weekly basis

Michael41

Oldie asked:

No offense, Oldie, but you are a con man's dream come true. I am not accusing FOTW of anything, but you are being very naive in your assumptions. FOTW has refused to reveal his VCCA information, yet you are willing to believe that his location is valid and that he is a VCCA member.


Seems to me that someone with an ax to grind against the VCCA would find an opportunity to publicize information that would bring the VCCA down well worth a day of his time. I can think of a number of people who have been lynched and dragged through this site who might be reading this thread with huge grins on their faces.

If this is indeed the scenario, I give FOTW credit for executing a pretty ingenious plan. And, I'll bet that never in a million years did he expect Mr. Barker's resignation. For someone looking for revenge, that's frosting on the cake!

Mind you, I'm not saying this is what happened. I'm just enlightening Oldie of how things sometimes work in the real world.

Well it looks to me that the VCCA has got what it didn't know could happen. I used to laugh at the ignorance of those that yelled out don't hang our dirty linnen out here on a public sight.
I wonder how many times Ms. Fink asked someone to do a membership list and keep it current? Then she decided that she would do that duty and she did. Who did the Board of Directors think owned the database? Well thinking and owning ain't the same thing. There are several other things that VCCA endorses but probably don't own. They are so busy being sure no money is being spent and holding the dues down so that the cheepest mail service is used that they don't have a clue who owns what. If I was Ms. Fink or anyone else that put something together I probably would take measures to insure it didn't get taken away either. Thank you Ms. Fink for holding on t0 what is yours! I really wouldn't trust some of the current members to have access to the VCCA mailing list either.
Thank you Jean And Dennis Fink.

Would some current Board member's please tell me what was accomplished at the recent meeting in Flint ?

I am sure, as is always the case, that there were many good or valuable decision's and processes that came from that meeting.

Thank You
Michael41

Jean:

I think you should re-read your post. Thanking yourself in this forum probably isn't the greatest idea at this point.

Elizebeth

Michael 41 I am 100% with you. It seems that things aren't always as they appear. I have always relished getting the G&D issue that had all the minutes of the National Board Meeting printed in their entirety. Now we hear a tidbit and that is like the Nightly News on television. We get the sensational explosive news and the "what someone done wrong to someone" story.

Maybe it is time that we start to sit up and pay attention. It was a shame no more response than the members did in the National election of Directors this year. The at large positions should have garnered a good turnout, but no such a thing. It was a sorry show, in my humble opinion.
I don't see why anyone would want that kind of a job anyway. Shame on the VCCA membership for not making those that are in power to be more accountable, and the position of a National Director more respectable and worthy. Those that are National Directors have my praise and my sympathy.

Billy Barker is the whole driving force and the owner of this site, Now think about what it is going to become with him gone?

Now that the cat is out of the bag, I think we need to concentrate on a fix and not who Fly is. It's obvious he's speaks the truth. (although some of the comments could have been left out)

One thing still bothers me. Leigh says the detailed minutes will be published in the G&D. I thank him for the background and reporting the events, but Leigh, how can we trust the Finks to accurately publish all this?

If there was any way to secure a page here on Chatter, I believe that might be the answer. The minutes should appear here along with whatever the plan is to fix this thing. Right now I see no other publication we have at our dispossal. Can we trust the G&D anymore?

Speadline,

You might be right, I could be naive. Initially when this thread was first started I wasn't sure if what FOTW was saying was correct or not and to be honest I was skeptical of his story. During my initial input I didn't question what FOTW had said, only the manner in which he said it. Now after several additions to this thread and especially those written statements by three Board Members and another by the former Administrator to this site, all who attended the meeting in question, and all who verified FOTW's story of what took place as basically what happened, I decided to openly thank FOTW for his efforts. Do you think we would have known about this issue in detail had FOTW not informed us?

Anyway, while we're discussing weather someone is credible or not based upon the fact that he wants to remain anonymous while functioning on this site, I noticed that your profile for this site is also incomplete and void of name, location, or VCCA number. Color me naive.

One way many of the members can get news and start to decide what needs to be done is to have the Directors to visit the Their Regions and report to the members what happened at the BOD meeting, they are our reps. and they should feel it their duty to inform their members about what is going on. In order to do that they need to be on the same page and report the facts, which should be in the minutes of the meeting. We need to hear both sides, since I wish to believe everyone sitting in that National board Meeting really think that they are in the right.
The problem with doing a desk at The Anniversery meeting is that only a small percentage of the members will attend because of the travel expense and the distance.

Billy is right in that we need the word to get out to our VCCA members. Thank goodness that the regular VCCA members that come here have a source for information, thank you FOTW, John, Dick and Billy. Whether there are changes at the top, we need to let the BOD know of the value of this site. We need to have it open to the public and also have a members only forum.

Damnit Billy, You don't have to resign just to show your disapproval of how some of the Directors behave, hell, just tell them you think that they messed up, and pursue your LEGAL road to making change, with in and not outside!

Man, try to think about all of us here with you thick or thin, feast or famine.

I'll jump on with you Wacky!
Mr.Bill, you are too valuable to this site. This media is the only place to exchange ideas and information to help get us out of this mess.
We need all the input from everyone here on Chatter, and Mr.Bill should stay on as it's web master.

The thought has crossed my mind the FOTW is not a real person but rather an outlet set up ahead of time by ?? to get this info out to the chat site.By doing it this way no one person can be attacked....just a thought :eek:
Anyway its doing a good job..

Oldie-

Yep. My profile page is as bare as a baby's butt... and it will stay that way. My concern for any opinions about my credibility ended around the Lil' Johnny era.

Anyway, I'm not the one reporting about Mrs. Fink sticking it to the good-ol-boys. I'm just sitting back enjoying the show.