VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION VCCA Judging Questions Vcca judging of engine years

I prefer to speak on the phone rather then post all the reasons why the VCCA accepts a correct replacement engine. The wrong engine would be the wrong displacement plain and simple.
It is true that it could be unfair to the person who goes the extra mile, but for the most part that person goes the extra mile on all aspects of his restoration, and is reflective on all aspects, and for the most part will have the better vehicle. We did not just arrive to this decision on a whim. There are too many questions with no answers. Such as;
What about a vehicle that had a service engine installed when it was a few years new?
What about and engine (V-8) that was decked and the numbers were removed?
What about the guy who buys the car in the field with no drive train?
What about an engine that just can't be repaired?
Again I would rather talk on the phone, I personally find it a much more focused and productive exchange of thoughts,
Enjoy
John Mahoney

John: regarding the four "what abouts". all four should take the deduction for engines dis-similar from that which was installed in the chevy as it left he factory, that is, if VCCA is to judge the cars in the "as it left the factory" condition . regards and merry christmas. mike

John, you have some valid points there and I would like to address them one at a time if I may:

1. An engine made in 1932 and installed in a 1929 vehicle, even though they both used a 194 cubic inch displacement, is considered an incorrect engine. The casting number of the block does not match that for the specific year. You can call it a replacement engine, but it is still considered the wrong engine for the year in question, and it does not conform to the VCCA mission statement that appears in the 2005 judging manual, and I quote: "...we, as club members, are comparing their vehicles to how the manufacturer delivered the vehicles to the dealer and (on) to the public. The goal of VCCA National Judging Process is to be regarded as the standard to which all Chevrolet vehicles are held. The result of the Judging process will be a fair and consistent evaluation of the vehicle being judged and the proper and deserved award for the owner’s efforts .


2. "It is true that it could be unfair to the person who goes the extra mile, but for the most part that person goes the extra mile on all aspects of his restoration, and is reflective on all aspects, and for the most part will have the better vehicle."

What if two cars in the same class score identical points which results in a tie, but one of the cars has a wrong engine and the other one doesn't? What then? Common sense would dictate that the car with the correct year engine should score higher. One "right" and one "wrong" do not make two "rights". The judging process and the rules are designed for the majority not the minority. And, the minority should conform to the rules instead of "bending" the rules for the minority at the expense of the majority.

3. "What about a vehicle that had a service engine installed when it was a few years new?"

No problem.....points are deducted for the wrong year engine. The judging manual pretty much eliminates that problem with it states that vehicles will be as they came from the factory or delivered from the dealer.

4. "What about an engine (V-8) that was decked and the numbers were removed?"

The car originally came from the factory with engine serial numbers, so we are back to the judging manual again......the car is to be how it came from the factory or delivered from the dealer. Therefore, it is the owner's responsibility to have the correct engine block and with the correct serial numbers.

5. "What about the guy who buys the car in the field with no drive train?"

His car is no different than a car that is being judged that has the correct engine installed. He should have the correct drive train if he is going to have it judged as prescribed by the judging manual mission statement. In counterpart, what about the guy who buys the car in the field with no drive train and he installs the correct drive train and engine when he restores the car? Case in point: There is a beautiful 1937 cabriolet in Portland, Oregon that has won VCCA awards. This car is fabulous, and the owner started with only a cowl, a windshield frame and some rocker panels. His drive train is totally correct. Under the present ruling, does he receive extra points for having the correct engine? No.

6. "What about an engine that just can't be repaired?"

The engine in my 1930 coupe couldn't be repaired so I found another engine with the correct 1930 casting number, and casting date, and the engine has a 1930 serial number as well. If someone is dedicated enough to find the correct engine and install it in his car then he should be given credit for his efforts instead of giving the credit to the dude that has the wrong year engine installed.

All of the points that you listed in your posting above are not that grave, and none of them are impossible. The problem is that the credit is given to the fellow with the wrong year engine and the car with the correct year engine doesn't get any extra points for doing a correct and "authentic" restoration. It's simple, just follow the mission statement in the VCCA judging manual and make it the car owner's responsibility to have a correct restoration, including the correct engine. That is what our mission statement strives for.

For those that are interested here is what is stated in section C. "Philosophy" of the 2005 judging manual regarding the mission statement:

"The mission statement of the VCCA includes the preservation and restoration of vintage Chevrolets. Vehicle judging is one of the many functions and activities available to the membership of the VCCA. The National Judging Committee understands that members enjoy many of the different activities that are available. (Tours, club meetings, model cars, (to) crafts and costume judging are examples). Members are encouraged to participate in any or all of the activities that the club has to offer. The VCCA Judging Process has been developed so that a vehicle can participate in these activities and still move through the awards system successfully. The function of the VCCA Judging Process is to provide a way for our membership to evaluate the historical correctness , workmanship, authenticity , and condition of our Vintage Chevrolets. It is the owners’ understanding that when they decide to have their vehicles judged, that we, as club members, are comparing their vehicles to how the manufacturer delivered the vehicles to the dealer and (on) to the public . The goal of VCCA National Judging Process is to be regarded as the standard to which all Chevrolet vehicles are held . The result of the Judging process will be a fair and consistent evaluation of the vehicle being judged and the proper and deserved award for the owner’s efforts."

And the judging manual further states under section E "Meet Requirements":

"To be entered at a meet where the VCCA Judging Process and awards are used, the owner must be a member in good standing. A registration form, identifying the owner and type of vehicle, must be filled out properly and signed by the owner. A vehicle entering judging at any VCCA Sanctioned Meet may be an original or restored vehicle, a driven or trailered vehicle,and is judged comparing its condition to when it was delivered from the factory, to the new car dealer, to the public. Any feature, option, or accessory shown in the original factory or dealer catalog, sales literature or company service bulletins or other original Chevrolet or General Motors literature are accepted for judging. It is the responsibility of the vehicle owner to document all features, options and accessories as being correct for that year.

I think the 'old' correct way is the right way.

This idea that a 'wrong' engine is OK is wrong.

My 2 cents.

Bill.

What makes a car/truck? Wheels and the most important an engine. The engine in a vehicle really determines what it is. It doesn't make any difference what year car it is you can find the correct casting # & p/n parts at least so that it appears from the outside that it is the way the vehicle is built. If we can find a 1920's or 30's engine to get the right part I just can't see why a modern V-8 mass produced engine would be hard to find. I guess some people don't have enough drive to do it and want to take the easy way out. I joined this club in the very early 60's to help me learn all about my Chevrolet and to get it as authentic as possible. Jim VCCA #1046

Guys, there is really no argument here from any of us that the correct factory engine that was dropped in the car on the assembly line is the "correct" engine. Any other engine is not the original one, hence the "wrong" engine.

I have spoken on this issue many times, at many meets and threads. It is also recognized that the owner who really carries out the restoration to the fullest is not getting their "due" when someone else is held at the same standard for not having the factory engine. We know this already going into the decision.

There is a larger issue here that I will share. I would like you all to think about John's "What if" questions a bit longer and deeper. If we can find solutions to the following concerns I feel we might be able to adopt a more rigorous policy on correct engine.

We are strapped enough with an all volunteer club who depends on each other for the recruitment of judges. It has been a great experience for most of our members to be able to judge in our system for many reasons. However our judges are asked to judge one of the largest ranges of years of any club in the country except the AACA. Most of our chief judges make sure that they select those members who are knowledgable and experienced in a particular class of Chevrolet. Many times we have to ask judges to evaluate classes that they are not familiar with or we have chief judges who do not know where to place each member who volunteers. Then we expect them to be an "expert" in casting numbers? That doesn't happen at most of our meets.

We are presently working on a complete set of engine identification cards that Chip is talking about. We have made some headway with these and have set a goal to have them for the Anniversary Meet. There are some members who were asked to share in the work load of such a project and have not done their job due to either having "issues" with it or just dropping the ball. The goal would be to have a complete engine ID data base that could be held on a CD and hard copy for each meet and with each Area Director.

Even if we did have the cards available we have to be able to have the manpower and reference material in place at each meet which will also need more time to perform. Are we going to have a tech check prior to our meets? Who is going to do that. Many members are going to want to tour and enjoy the other aspect of the meet and not spend more time with judging. Some of our meets are only one and two day meets. There is limited time and resources to add more. Can we have tech checks that are quick?

If incorrect engines are a deduction and we have a system in place to evaluate it, are we going to deduct the 100 pts. and make sure someone with a different 265 in their '56 Bel Air than the date code on the car does not advance in our system. Is this where it is headed with a club that has a questionable future due to lack of younger people? We feel that if we carry this issue too far we will turn people away from meets and judging altogether. Where do we go with this issue? How far?

There are very few vehicles that are 50, 60 years old that do not have a past to them and a story to tell. We do not want to turn members away from our club services. We do not want to discourage someone from bringing home a basket case and bringing it back to life. John mentioned a block that has been milled and the numbers are gone. Even if you brought a 31 home with no engine and trans and you find a '31 drivetrain three months older than the car, you still have an incorrect engine, don't you? Shouldn't that member not have deductions too? OR are we going to draw the line somewhere else? Where do we draw that line? We would have to change our deduction so that members with restored engines that are not the original engine will receive a specified deduction but it can't be 100 points, in my opinion or we will drive many hobbyists away.


My point is that our club is not at the stage where we can accomplish what you are asking for. We don't want to turn away members who have saved a piece of history. Most of our vehicles that are older have been tampered with and we should encourage people to restore and preserve their Chevys the best way they can otherwise they will be street rodded.
We need a system in place which will require manpower and time. It's hard to find both of those.

Let's discuss ways to proactively solve these concerns and we can begin to improve our system.

Happy Holidays,

Steve

Just a few post thoughts,

We stil have a numerous amount of judging forms where members do not fill out the engine information. The team captains, deputies, and chief judges are supposed to identify that and send it back to the members to be filled out. I can not tell you how many forms came in with the identification not filled out. We had meets where the judging forms were filled out by the host meet with much of the information not included. We need to have chief judges and meet hosts follow what is asked in the judging manual. I feel that many people have not read it yet. We have host regions who choose chief judges by popularity and not by judging ability and management capabilities because that is the "Way it has been done." I have had chief judges who have said, "This is my meet and we will do it my way." We are not going to make progress that way, I can assure you.

Couldn't we have vehicle cards with this information filled out where the members can keep the cards and place them on the seat? HPOCF cards are being formed that will have the information on it for the certification teams. This will require more volunteers. I can't do all of this myself. Yet asking people to volunteer is always a struggle.

Just felt I needed to add a bit more.

Steve. How did the judging committe come up with deducting 100 points for the wrong engine. To me that seems a very excessive amount of point reduction for the wrong engine. A person may have a car that Is restored completely like how It came from the factory, Except for having the wrong engine. Now you take 100 points off and you are at 900 points before you look for other things that may be wrong on the car. Already you are In the 800 point range and maybe less then that. Now that car has lost so many points that winning any kind of award Is gone. I realize that a wrong engine warrants a hefty point reduction, But I think 100 point reduction Is way to drastic, Compared to what the other point reductions are for other things wrong on a car. In my opinion I think maybe a 25 point reduction for a wrong engine Is fair and still gives the person, A chance to score high enough with his car to recieve some kind of award, Who has restored the rest of the car with very few point reductions. I think that some of the critical things about judging cars Is driving alot of guys away from having their cars judged. I hear comments like, Why should I put myself thru all this judging stuff, I will stick to touring and have fun with no worry about how my car will do If I had It judged. Myself I enjoy being a judge and having my cars judged, Along with the touring. Just my thoughts. I would like to hear other comments of my thoughts, Or am I way off base about this. :)

Well, Chevy, you have hit the nail on the head.

Since what we are talking about here with "Wrong Engine" in this string is a different thing than "Wrong Engine" as per how the judging currently works.

Since the current judging system accepts a car that has the 'correct' displacement engine form the 'correct era' as being OK - then

what is a "Wrong Engine" when we are talking about as it applies in the current judging system?


It would therefore have to be an engine that is NOT the correct displacement, or not from the correct era.

In other words, to get the 100 point deduction for "Wrong Engine" - under the current system - the engine has to be REALLY, REALLY wrong. Like a 350 in a 1934 sedan, or something.

Thus, the big 100 point deduction. The "100 points off" insures that a car with such an obviously doubly-wrong engine will not receive an award nor advance in the award system. Since you have to score 901 or more points to advance. That is the thinking.

To keep the really blatantly wrong-engined cars (like a 350 in a 6 cylinder era car) from being able to advance.

Steve: Thanks for posting your point of view on this subject. I appreciate you taking the time to do so and to elaborate on some of the reasons why the wrong engine ruling was made. However, I would like to address your concerns in the order that you presented them.

"It is also recognized that the owner who really carries out the restoration to the fullest is not getting their "due" when someone else is held at the same standard for not having the factory engine. We know this already going into the decision."

Knowing this then, the decision should have not of been made since that is discriminatory to the majority of the people in the judging competition that have the correct engine in place. Since, on the other hand, the judging committee did go through with this decision, then to keep the system "fair" as stated in the VCCA judging mission statement, provisions should have been made to give extra points to the person that does have the correct engine. No matter how you try to explain it, with all things considered, in the judging process a car with the incorrect engine is not equal to the car with the correct engine. Again, what about a tie score in the same class between a car with the wrong engine and a car with the correct engine as I mentioned above? What is the answer in that situation?

"I would like you all to think about John's "What if" questions a bit longer and deeper. If we can find solutions to the following concerns I feel we might be able to adopt a more rigorous policy on correct engine."

There is a solution to all of the above. The VCCA mission statement covers it. Abide by the mission statement and you have your solutions.

"Many times we have to ask judges to evaluate classes that they are not familiar with or we have chief judges who do not know where to place each member who volunteers. Then we expect them to be an "expert" in casting numbers? That doesn't happen at most of our meets."

True, and I agree with you. Many times judges do have to evaluate classes that they are not familiar with, however, the judging manuals were created for just that sort of problem. The manuals make it easier for volunteer judges to perform more adequately within out judging system. They don't have to be experts on casting numbers. All they need is a pair of eyes, the engine cards with the correct numbers for the year in question, and to know where to look...which should be stated on the card. This is no harder than evaluating the correct tires, the correct battery, the correct bumpers and etc. for the specific year. Some accessory items like radios, for example, are harder to evaluate than the correct engine, or the correct battery, or the correct tires. Considering your argument on the wrong engine issue, then maybe we should allow those items to be incorrect as well because the volunteer judges are not familiar with those accessories either.

"Even if we did have the cards available we have to be able to have the manpower and reference material in place at each meet which will also need more time to perform."

If the engine cards are part of the judging manual, then no other time is needed other than going through the judging manual step by step as a person judges each car. It is my understanding that is what the judging manuals were created for, and that is what makes up part of a professional judging process.

"If incorrect engines are a deduction and we have a system in place to evaluate it, are we going to deduct the 100 pts. and make sure someone with a different 265 in their '56 Bel Air than the date code on the car does not advance in our system."

A deduction for the wrong year engine is mandatory, however the total points deducted is up to the judging committee to set in place. I agree with you, 100 points is probably too aggressive; 25 to 50 points would be more logical. And, as far as a car not "advancing in our system".......during judging points are deducted for incorrect items. That is what determines first place, second place, and etc. If there are too many incorrect items on a car it receives a lower score and it doesn't advance. That is how the judging process works.

"My point is that our club is not at the stage where we can accomplish what you are asking for."

If the VCCA is not at that stage as of yet, then what happened? The VCCA must have moved in the wrong direction in the past couple of years because previously points were deducted for the wrong engine and the wrong transmission.

"Let's discuss ways to proactively solve these concerns and we can begin to improve our system."

Absolutely and I totally agree! However, bottom line, the judging committee must either follow the VCCA's own mission statement as documented in the judging manual or change it. You just can't have it both ways and expect the system to work and to be fair for all.

Steve,
I have a couple of questions about your comments.

"We are presently working on a complete set of engine identification cards that Chip is talking about." What is the content of the "cards". Do they include serial & casting numbers? Do they include prefix and suffix codes? Or are they just the listing of: "Engine size/displacement Carburation/Intake Exhaust and Transmission availability" that were proposed for "Phase 1"?

"We have made some headway with these and have set a goal to have them for the Anniversary Meet. There are some members who were asked to share in the work load of such a project and have not done their job due to either having "issues" with it or just dropping the ball." I believe that I am one of the persons that you are refering to. I was asked to do (and also volunteered) to do the cards for the early 6s to the first Chevrolets. I made a proposed a format which included the "numbers" [casting, serial, date code] (see proposed Class G card posted earlier) so even a judge that knew nothing about the engines that he was asked to judge would be able to determine if it was the correct year and type for the vehicle. When I was informed in no uncertain terms that the "numbers" would not be included dispite my multiple efforts, I then refused to contribute to the abomination and nearly total waste of my and others time. I to this day don't understand how a judge is going to use the "Phase 1" cards.

"The goal would be to have a complete engine ID data base that could be held on a CD and hard copy for each meet and with each Area Director." I believe that a laminated hard copy of an engine card for each class should be part of the packet given to each team captain. He then would give the card to the person on his team that was judging engines. With the card a judge could quickly determine if the engine was correct for the year and application. I believe that even a totally unfamiliar judge using a card similar to the Class G card posted earlier can be a number expert. The card contains a description of the location of the vehicle (or car) number, engine numbers and codes. It then gives the range or type numbers used in that class. Now I fully understand that all classes are not as straight forward as Class G. Some particularly in the late 60s and early 70s are very complex particularly with the COPO options that were available. But a delay in getting these cards (or for other classes) completed should not prevent the use of cards for other classes. If we were to use that criteria to judging overall then no judging of any kind would take place. There will never be complete equality between classes in VCCA judging.

Just my thoughts and questions. I still am willing to develop cards that contain enough information to help improve the judging process and judges education.

How "wrong" can a "wrong" engine be?

The 1939 engine was the later engine sold for a replacement in a 1937.This would be OK?Then can a 1948 216 be installed in a 1937 seeing its of the same displacement?Or a 1952 216.

If a 1949 head with 14MM plugs,which was the correct replacement part for a 1948 with 10MM plugs, was installed on a 1948 could points be deducted for the wrong head?If the same head was on a complete 1949 engine in a 1948 would that be OK?

What if an owner went by the present rules and installed a 1954 235 engine in place of the 235 in his 1950.Then 10 years from now the rules are changed and the correct engine only is accepted.Does he need to change back to the 1950 engine or???If I use the 1954 automatic choke carb. on the 1954 engine installed in my 1950 is the engine OK but the carburetor is incorrect?Should the engine be 1950 gray or 1954 blue?

What if I attend the Central Meet and the 1954 235 in a 1950 is considered OK there and then go to a Middle West Meet and its decided that its incorrect?...It there anything that states just where the line is drawn as to what is coorect and incorrect?

Can a 1954 235 be installed in a 1950 PG with a 235?Then how about a 1962 235, with the short water pump.Can that be installed in a 1950?What intake manifols should I use-the 1950 or the 1962?

In 1959 the replacement complete service engine for a 1956 265, which came with an intake manifold, was a 1959 283 engine.Would that be correct.If so could you deduct "points" because it has the incorrect intake manifold?

Just some food for thought

Now those are some interesting scenarios!!! Leave it to Chevgene to know all of those opportunities.

When you start changing the engine from the correct year engine is when I have a problem. The VCCA is trying to preserve history. History can not be changed. History is documented with fact. What if in 50 years we had not done our job of properly preserving the Chevrolet History would our future members believe that a 283 was correct for a 1956? Or would they believe that a 1914 Royal Mail was correct with a 350? By preserving history as it was built ( at the assembly plant or show room )future generations will not be confused as to what is correct. I say if it is a 31 with a 32 engine it is wrong. If it is a 56 with a 59 engine it is wrong. Wouldn't it be nice to have a 28 that was built to have a 6 cyl with a 194? Yes, but they did not build them. It appears from everything I have seen and heard that we have the tools to determine what engine is correct for what year. Let's use them!! Let's not get hung up on the Date Code issue.

That brings up another thought. When is an Antique Car a Hot Rod? The process of building a Hot Rod is to modify it to what you like and want. By allowing incorrect engines; a 31 in a 29 - a 48 in a 35; are we accepting HOT RODS? Now I have no problems with Hot Rods. After all, if it were not for Hot Rods some of us would not have the CORRECT engine in our cars.

Just a few thoughts that have been brewing since this thread started.

Gene,
Your post illustrates exactly what I have been trying to get across for years and years. "Where do you stop when you allow deviations or modifications?"

It seems that changing one part often requires another change to make it work. For your engine examples you can often add: size/location of exhaust pipe, size/type of muffler, and/or clamps/supports. Fuel line location, generator, starter and other engine components.

Then there is what I call the "endless requests". "If you allow seat belts (or mirrors or ???) for safety then why can't I put on radial tires?" triple-edge wiper blades? replace 6 volt with 12 volt? (no not easier starting but brighter lights) hydraulic brakes? [the list can be nearly endless].

Safety is not the only rationale. "I can't find the correct part." "My original was damaged beyond repair." "Redoing my originals were just too expensive." These are among the reasons cited for or justification to make a modification.

If you don't believe that the situation described above occurs just do a search in this Chat site for radial tires for instance. A search of other topics will also get several hits.

Apparently for 'safety' we allow seat belts; but NOT radial tires.

Now that's CRAZY!!!

Instead of saying "where do we stop" I think we should say "don't start."

That is..... NO changes, no modifications, just plain old original as it was when it was.....

Bill.

This entire thing started back in 1965 or 1966 when they allowed "modern core radiators" in the place of the original honey comb radiators.

Maybe it would be approiate to deduct a lower number of points for each deduction, like maybe 5 points per incorrect tire, 10 points for seat belts, and 25 points for the incorrect date coded engine and 100 points for the incorrect size engine (cubic inch). This would let those with the incorrect but correct figuration to compete, they would have to loose points and could not win a tie with a completely correct car or truck. Just don't charge any points for mis-spelled words,

my suggestion: if incorrect casting #, 100 point deduct. if correct casting # and incorrect casting date, 25 point deduct. if correct casting # and incorrect suffix, 25 pt deduct. if correct casting # and incorrect casting date and incorrect suffix, 50 point deduct.Don't think VCCA ready to evaluate and hence deal with atypical broach marks. mike

I keep reading all the talk about wrong engines, Casting numbers, That I think that the time It will take to judge all the things about Casting numbers, wrong engines and so on and on that there will not be qualified people at the judging events around the country to properly do It right. Also I think that getting to looking for casting numbers and properly Identifing what Is right or wrong Is pushing the system to, I do think we will have more people turned away, Which Is a great majority already not wanting to have their cars judged. If the engine Is wrong for the car, OK then so many points are deducted for that. If the engine Is correct except for Instance the carburetor Is wrong, Then a small deduction. Having the people at the judging meet who want to judge and who are usually not qualified to know alot about the cars they help judge, Getting Into casting numbers and other time consuming things like that, I say we are trying to go way to far In our VCCA judging system, And as much as I like having my cars judged and trying to be a judge who like alot of others who do not really know alot about the cars they judge, I think some of this stuff turns me off. Like so many people, The heck with Judging. I will stick to touring and being with my friends and have fun. I guess how far does the VCCA push being over critical about judging cars. Again this Is my thoughts. Lets hear more. :)

Would the correct casting number with the incorrect casting date be any casting number that post dates the build date of the car, even if the correct year? I would think that a 25 point deduction for this would be a little steep.

if the car rolled off the line on june 1 1931 and is presented for judging with a july 1 1931 block, the block isn't that which was installed in the car as it left the chevy plant. hence, if VCCA is to follow the "as it left the chevy plant" philosophy, then a deduct is appropriate in the above examle.mike

Donald: It takes no longer to check for the correct engine than it does to check for the wrong engine, and the block casting number, serial number and casting date will determine what engine is installed.....especially if the information is part of the judging manual. Under the new ruling, the engine must have the same cubic inches as the original. Well.....to determine that the block casting numbers have to be checked anyway!

How do you feel about having a "modified" body on a car when it is judged? Should points be deducted for a modified body since the car didn't originally come from the factory as that particular model?

If I did a perfect frame-up restoration on a 1948 and the guy next to me did an equally good job but had a 1952 216 block (easy to see side motor mount bracket boss) and he recieved equal or more points I would be an unhappy VCCA member....if you want to talk about losing members.On a run of the mill car it would make little difference but to the guy that takes it seriously its another story....and those "perfect" cars are usually owned by the "serious" people.

Would be intresting to know how many VCCA members that have cars judged know of this rule.

Gene, It really would not be an issue because all cars over 975 would move up. For both cars to be equal both owners would be equally serious, and odds are both owners went to same degree of restoration. I read Don Boltz's post and he really gives the true perspective. Also keep in mind if the block is of a different year the other sundries on the engine must be correct for that year of manufacture. Judging is supposed to be a fun and informative process, but it seems like the fun part is being forgotten about. I do see your point about block having a difference and also sharing the same displacement. I think some new wording needs to be installed such as "correct displacement for year of manufacture that is visibly correct"
John