VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1912-1928 What did I break?

Last week I replaced the differential in my 26. I put about 120 miles on it, 60 of them yesterday. The car seemed to be doing just fine. Some of the miles I put on it included giving people rides, one of whom was an older mechanic. He said it sounded good to him.

In any case, as I was driving home I hit a small pot hole and heard what sounded like a bottle popping. About a 1/4 mile later I stopped at a red light. As I went to take off, I had barely gone 5 feet, I heard another light pop and the car coasted to a stop. It wouldn't move in any of the gears.

I'll start on it today, hopefully. Meanwhile, what would be y'alls educated guesses on what I broke?

Hi,

Most likely you broke an axle. Jack up one rear wheel. Place the transmission in gear. By hand, turn the wheel that is off the ground. You should not be able to turn it. Do the same for the other side and it should not turn.

If you are able to turn both wheels, the drive line is suspect.

In rare cases you can slip the drive line splines out of the "U" Joint. This could happen if a spring were broken or any other malfunction that would allow the drive line to move away from the transmission. This normally happens when the vehicle is fully loaded.

Ray,

Shouldn't either axle turn with the other on the ground if either were broken?

No once you break an axle the broken one will made the differential think the wheel is spinning (all the turning torque will go to the broken axle side) and the other axle won't turn. If you had a posi-traction or a locked differential you would get torque to the non-broken side.

I think it is self evident that if the wheel does turn SOMETHING IS BROKEN.

The axles are fine. the differential looks good but it will only turn so far and then jams up. I can force it to move by using a screw driver and prying it with the driver between the ring gear and housing.

That's all I know for now, the mosquitos were eating me up and I had to run for cover. I'll look again tomorrow sometime.

Oddly enough, when I would jack either wheel up it would turn with the other wheel down. They also turned freely with just normal noise.

Check for one tooth missing on either the pinion or the ring gear. If okay, problem is in the driveshaft. Could be stripped from the end of the shaft to the pinion gear, or stripped at the "U" Joint, or simply broken shaft.

Did you lap the pinion gear to the drive shaft or just fit it. last year I took a tooth of the pinion and when I stripped down the unit the drive shaft was cracked through the woodrough key ,then I went through my spares stripping differentials after a good shaft to use, six later I found one.So if it is the shaft may I suggest you get a bill possum drive shaft about $200. and use it. and lap fit the pinion gear.

I never removed the pinion. I simply replaced the differential gears as a unit. I did adjust the fit from the ring gear to the pinion though. I just looked and the teeth are all good. Whatever the problem is it's in front of the differential.

Did you clean all the lubrication out of the differential case? Did you look for "teeth" left in the case by prior breakdowns?

At this point it is probably necessary to pull the driveshaft and pinion for an inspection. Look close at the driveshaft-pinion connection and then inspect the splines on the front of the driveshaft.

Gotta find something somewhere.

Yes, I inspected the case for metal and found none. Not even minute pieces. I in spected all the gears and they looked good.

I agree that it is now time to pull the drive shaft. I'll start by disconnecting the front universal and make sure the tail shaft in the transmission is good.

It's a simple matter of process of elimination.

This is a good education too. Albeit a costly and frustrating one.

There's also the possibility that a piece of foreign material worked its way into either of the pinion bearings,or one of the carrier bearings.Or at worst,there's the possibility that one of the bearings or its ball retaining cage is starting to breakdown or come apart.

What CJP says happened to my 34, it still drove ok but 'clunked' every now and then, eventually the bronze/brass bearing cage collapsed and I found the the problem, if you pull the shaft out, then you also have to take the centre out, check for side play in the csrrier bearings.
Another problem encountered by a mate was that he fitted new carrier bearings back to front and when loaded on one side the diff centre moved slightly accross and this also gave a "clunk"
Chris

Update. I pulled the cover off the differential as noted previously. This afternoon I started the car, put it in gear, several actually, and the pinion from the drive shaft did not turn. No noises whatsoever were heard.

Maybe within the next few days I can pull the universal cover and see what's happening there.

What are the odds the clutch went out? I can't think of anything that would have broken and not make noises with it running and in gear.

I would bet on broken drive shaft just in front of the pinion. It is a weak spot in the shaft. If so buy a replacement from C&P Automotive in Pacific Palisades, California

Chipper, you are correct. The pictures aren't very good but they show where the shaft broke just inside the pinion gear.

Why buy a shaft from C&P Automotive? Why not Gary or the Filling Station?

C&P are the folks that make the shafts. You can buy it from either of the three. Shipping might be less from MO than CA or OR. However, you just might get a better price from C&P if you ask, particularly if you buy the axles too. The make them too.

Ok, thanks.

Would you have their phone number or web site?

Go here: http://www.billypossum.com/index.htm

Billy Possum sounmds to be about as crazy as I am. Good lord willin I'm takin my old car on a cross country trip.

Yeah,...crazy like a possum! I knew a kid that had a pet possum once, it outsmarted his whole family ever once in a while. It would get out of it's sleeping cage at night and show up back at the house when it was time to eat, we discovered he was reaching out through the chicken wire cage and unlatching the latch to the cage door.

I have a dog I saved from going to the pound. It escapes my fenced in yard and we have never figured out how. He runs up and down the street and I swear he's smiling from ear to ear. Generally when I call him he returns. If not, he returns when he gets hungry.

Anybody want a dog?

No, sorry I got off topic, did you buy the driveshaft from Billy Possum? did he reccomend new bushings in the torque tube, or (Okie bushing?)

Hi All,
I called Billy about 2 weeks ago, he was out of stock and was not making the drive shaft any more. The Filling Station is out of stock.
Thanks
John