VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1929-1932 Starter/Generator Rebuilding Now or Later

finally got my engine back for my 1929 and in the process of rebuilding that.

was going through parts i have on my bench that have to go back on the car eventually. figure when all the parts are gone, should be done. or if i am done and there are parts on the bench... uh oh !!

was looking at my Generator & Starter. generally looking at them internally they look original. they both work and perform their jobs when removed 18 months ago.

debate was should i go ahead and rebuild them now before they go on, or just use them till they die since they are functioning as they should.

how long will they live ?? i know that rebuild kits are readily available for both. new armature, field coils, brushes, springs, and bushings.

i am NOT doing a show restoration, only a driver restoration. mechanically sound and looks good, but not perfect 3.5 outta 5 :)

If the commutators look smooth and clean and the brush length is reasonable I would go with them as is. They are easy to get off if they need service down the road. If you still have a good electrical shop in your area you could always have them look at it. Mine will do just what is needed. Also, why waste good armatures and field coils?

Dave

I prefer a rebuild for prevention rather than wait for total failure.

If you take it to a shop, remember to tell them NOT to take off the nameplate or paint over it.

Don't ask how I know this. Dean

If the commutators look good as was suggested, I clean them up with fine sand paper using my lathe. I clean the slots out (only on the generator) between segments and make sure the mica (that’s what is in between the segments) is about 1/16” below the surface of the segments. A piece of hacksaw blade is actually what is used to clean up the mica if it’s to high. If the brushes are good I would check the bushings and replace the 6203 bearing in the nose of the generator. The original bearings have no shields and the cost of a new, high quality bearing is about $7. I try and cover any exposed wiring and use the liquid type tape. You must use brake cleaner first to get the grease and oil out of the cloth or the liquid tape won’t stick. To pull the field coils is no easy task for most and better left for the shops. If the ends of the armatures are good and none of the legs look cracked or bent (starter), then they are fine. Check the bolts that hold the starter drive spring to the shaft. There is a special washer under each bolt that prevents the bolt from loosening. Many times I’ve found these washers missing and the bolts either loose or the holes for the bolts in the shaft egged out some. Check the starter drive itself for wear in the teeth and the spiral grooves it comes forward and back on. I’ve seen where a rough lip has built up on those grooves causing the drive to hang up occasionally. They are out, a quick once over is no time lost. After polishing the commentators, when you put the gen or starter back together, I push in on each brush while I rotate the armature to help seat each brush some. Hook six volts to the generator case, negative to ground and positive to the wire feeding the cutout. If it spins things are good.

Here’s a set from a 30’ I just did what I described above to. To remove the spiral pins that hold the data plates in, I have a 1/4” wide small cold chisel sharpened with more angle so the edge is finer. I simply tap the head of the pin at the base where it contacts the data plate to knock the pin loose. A tap from each side then a tiny pair of electricians dykes gets them out. Do NOT hit the pin hard with the chisel as they are soft and you’ll cut the head right off. The chisel helps loosen it sideways and lift the pin at the same time. There are sources for the spiral pins and I have extras because I’m always working on the starters and generators.

here are some picts of my starter as it sits....

view of bendix drive, then a view through each port at each brush, and the nose

then the same for my generator...

I'm NOT an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" guy...
and I DO believe in doing the work well before it leaves you stranded...

however

Both of your units look quite clean and appear to have been reconditioned pretty recently.
And the commutator on the generator looks to have good undercutting yet.
If I were you, about all I'd do is pull them apart (no more than necessary though) use some fine sand paper on the commutators and clean them well. Blow clean with compressed air, lubricate and reassemble

After my engine was rebuilt, I had the starter rebuilt but with high torque field coils. I recall JYD or Chipper strongly recommending this. It seems to help turnover the tight rebuilt engine, especially when restarting when hot.

I think it's called "heat soak" in which the elevated temperature of the starter caused by the hot engine increases the resistance in the windings. Sometimes the engine will barely turn over.

I also paralleled 2 x 6v Optima batteries for extra cranking capacity.