VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 1941 Turn Signals

I want to add turn signals to my 41 SD 5 passenger coupe.

I saw a reproduction set on eBay that has a three-wire setup and is 12 volt. They are on eBay as we speak.

I thought there was a different re-production set of the turn signals with 7 wires and 6 volt that was just like (well almost) the original 41/42 seta.

Rather than put one of the after market sets on I would rather spend the extra buck and get one that looks, at least, like the original.

Will someone educate me on this topic. What is available? I'm tired of sticking my arm out only to have someone wave back.

Any information or advice would be appreciated.

Best,

Charlie

Following along.

Check out the Filling Station.

No one makes a signal that looks like the original but will work like an original.

Hi Charlie,

Does your car have 2 bulbs in each taillight assembly or one dual filament bulb per tail light? I cannot determine that from the wiring diagram.

The key factor is whether you want to use the existing brake lights and maybe the parking lights as turn signals. This could mean just one filament in a dual filament bulb.

If that is what you want then you need a 7 wire switch. That switch is set up so the rear turn signals use the same filament or bulb as the brake light. When you step on the brakes both of the rear brake lights come on except if you have a turn signal on. In that situation the bulb on that one side will continue to flash.

The 3 wire switch will only work if you are adding separate turn signals. That is what I have on my car It was what was there when I got the car. I am thinking of converting to a 7 wire system so I can connect at least the rear signals to the brake light bulb.

With respect to a period-correct looking 7 wire control I have not yet seen one that catches my eye. Most of what I see are big shiny chrome boxes.

As far as 6 or 12 volts go, there is not enough current (amps) drawn by the turn signals to be a concern. You will need a 6 volt flasher and if the control unit has an indicator light in it that bulb will need to be for 6 volts.

Hope this helps!

A Guide 6004 is small and unobtrusive, has cancel, and probably has a 7 wire switch inside even if they didn't solder all 7 wires on when they made it. It is 10 years or so too new, but looks almost period and doesn't draw attention to itself the way a modern chrome box would.

I think I'm looking at the same one you're looking at on eBay, it says 3 wire, but the picture shows 5 wires coming out of it. It's a great looking reproduction.

Rusty,

I will be converting the park lights to a two-contact. So I think I'll need the seven wire hookup,

Thanks to everyone who has responded,

What is the Guide number on he one that was made for 42-48 with the self-canceling wheel? Were there more than one during those years? If so, which is the best one?

Best,

Charlie

The self canceling wheel was first used in 1950.
The 1940-1948 switch was basically the same and had a knob the looked like a tiny shift lever knob for a 1941,etc.

You could always paint the chrome to match your column. That way you could buy what you like shape-wise (as Rusty said either 6v or 12v will work), and then scuff with scotchbrite, quick prime and paint to match.

Just to complicate things there is a way to use a 3 wire switch with a couple of relays instead of a 7 wire switch. I am thinking of trying that approach this winter.

The purpose of the relays is to add the extra circuits and functions needed to make the brake light filament flash when the brakes are applied while signaling a turn.

I tried that 40 years ago. I do not recall the details but it is much more complicated that it seems. Please post a diagram if you are successful.

I believe the reason the bulbs flash is because of the blinker can (relay) if there is one.... and the use of the correct bulb with the correct filament resistance. Without the correct resistance you don’t get the amps to operate the bimetallic switch in the can. I believe the correct bulb is #1157.

Mike

The 1157 is 12 volt. Maybe 1154?

Looks like we managed to hijack Charlie’s thread and get things off course pretty far.

I agree that the traditional mechanical flasher that we have in these cars requires sufficient resistance and therefore current draw to work properly. Even in more modern cars the flasher will sometimes not work if you install LED bulbs. They do not draw enough current to make the flasher work.

I’ve been thinking about that as I plot my attack. I might have to hide a light bulb in the circuit that triggers the relay. Ought to be a fun experiment.

Rusty, they sell "black boxes" for adding traditional trailer hitch wiring to cars that essentially do what you are proposing with the relay solution just using electronic switching. They "may" work on 6v and could do exactly what you are trying to do with the relays? I've used them but can't remember the light layout. I think your relays would work and be easy to troubleshoot if they acted up. The relay coil load could eliminate the issues with low current from LED bulbs.

If you want a load for current draw, you could use a wirewound resistor so there's no glowing lol. I actually have 3 motion lights outside my house that would not work with LED bulbs so I added a socket with a plug under the LED bulb and each light has a 7w nightlight inside the fixture. Works great but looks weird when you look closely in the daylight as the nightlights always have an orange filament...

Steve,

Prob was a 1154 ... Been a while...

Mike

Hi Tim!

Yes, I have considered using a trailer wiring converter. I have used them in cars that have separate turn signals and brake lights when I want to tow a trailer with the same filament for turn and brake lights.

Except I cannot find one that will work with 6 volts. In fact I have found a few that state they will not work with 6 volts.

At the cost it might be worth a try. It might be easier than working with relays.

The voltage loss in the black box would likely be way too much at 6 volts, but if you could get it to fucntion on 6v (i have my doubts) you could trigger the relays with it.

Another possibility is 2 flashers and 2 relays. The only trouble is if the switch has only one bulb as an indicator, there is no way to power it directly. Maybe you could do it with a couple of diodes, and then get a lower voltage indicator bulb. That might not be too bad if all the stuff can live under the dash.

I love it!!

Thanks for all the great ideas. That is the value of a forum like Chat.

I will start a new thread when I start the project.

OK guys, as to Charlies question. My tiny pea brain is wondering?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1940-1941-...5ff9711750a9c14365ead1ffed194a%7Ciid%3A1

JUST FOUND OUT he makes these in 6 volt also!

A couple days ago, I came across a Guide 6004 I had forgotten about. It has the self canceling wheel. Seems to be in good shape as far as the arm and housing, etc, are concerned. It's black.

Questions:

a. Will it work on a 41?

b. Will the self cancel work on a 41?

c. Is it worth anything? (wires have been cut at about full length and two short ones for the clidker appear cut about the same, i.e. near where they would hook up. Total of 7 wires.

Thanks for any further advice. This is my driver 41 and, like I said, tired of arm signals.

Best,

Charlie

Charlie, The Guide 6004 7 wire switch should work just fine on your 41. I don’t believe the self canceling function will work however because of the location and configuration of the hub on the back of the 41 steering wheel. If I recall correctly, the self canceling wheel on the switch can be removed if the two halves of the switch are separated. If the cloth wire colors are still discernible, red should be left front, black right front, natural with black and green cross tracer left rear and natural with green cross tracer right rear. The plain natural wire goes to the brake light switch.

Mike

Yes. A 6004 is what I would use.

Its a shame if they have configured the steering somehow so that cancel wont work, but if that's how it is I guess you don't get cancel.

They also made a 6002, some years older, it has no cancel.

There are 2 mounting styles of the 6004 BTW, one a big diecast looking clamp I suspect was for factory OE applications, and then there was also an almost-a-hose-clamp version that fits on nearly any old fashioned steering column.

There has been a 7 wire switch inside every 6004 I have seen, even if it is a 4-wire version. They generally need the wires replaced anyhow, so if it were a 4 wire version you could just solder on the missing ones while you were at it.

The wires have a wrap on them. The exposed ones are pretty faided. I'll pull back some of the wrap covering to see it there are any color coding left.

May have get a new harness from one of the sources such as YnZ.

With all the help it seems that I'm getting close to a solution.

I may choose to go with the three wire knockoff and sell to 6004.

Best,

Charlie

It was probably mentioned earlier, but you will need to add lights in the back if you go with a 3 wire switch.