VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 41 special deluxe horn

Hello, my horn has barely worked so I thought I would tackle it. After carefully moving the horn ring back and forth it is now stuck on and the horns themselves sound half dead.
So I have 2 problems I could use help with: 1) I need to adjust the horn ring first (pg 229 in manual)
2) the horns sound is not right
Not sure how to get the horns not sounding so muted, not sure where to go from here. Please help.
Thank you.

One simple thing to check would be to make sure the horns have good electrical connections, hot and ground. In particular, make sure the ground is a good one to the chassis.

Hope this helps at least with the sound of the horns.

Dean

Thanks Dean. How do I check for a good ground at the horns? There is only the 1 wire to each horn supplying power.
John

I suspect that the ground connection is through the base of the horns. Make sure that there is no crud or even paint that separates the horn base/bracket from where it bolts to the chassis/firewall/whatever. That electrical ground connection needs to have good conduction to the grounded post of the battery.

Cheers, Dean

I will check for a good ground but 1st I have been working on adjusting the horn ring.
Using a multimeter to test I have 1 lead going to ground and 1 lead to the wire that comes out of the bottom of the steering column. I have it set to beep for continuity.
Ideally I want the meter to beep when I press down on the horn ring completing the circuit but it does the opposite, it beeps when it is not pressed and stops beeping when pressed.
Not sure what to do now.

John

Are you checking continuity with the battery disconnected?

According to the wiring diagram shown in the old car manual project's 1941 Chevy shop manual (http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1941/41csm283.htm), the horn button provides a path to ground for the horns. Kinda confusing.

I believe I'm at the end of what I can suggest. Hopefully others with more experience with 1941 electrical problems will chime in.

All my best, Dean

If you are using the multimeter for continuity disconnect the wire at the base of the steering column. The meter should then only show a circuit when the horn is pressed.
Tony

Thank you Dean & Tony,
Tony, yes I disconnected the battery before starting this adventure. And yes I have the wire at the bottom of the steering column disconnected from the horn relay.
I should explain I did not have this short until I started trying to adjust the horn ring yesterday.
Since the trouble is the horn ring giving me this dead short I have tried to adjust the horn ring as it states in the manual pg 229.
“the horn ring contact is adjusted by loosening the horn ring clamp screw and turning the steering wheel lower hub housing as necessary until the desired horn blowing ring contact is secured, then tighten the clamp screw.”
The trouble may be that the steering wheel lower hub housing does not turn as stated in the directions above.
I may need to remove the steering wheel to get at the horn blowing ring contact.
Anyone have any suggestions?

John

UPDATE: Ok so this morning I removed both horns and cleaned all contact points and boy are they LOUD now! They sound great.
So now back to the horn ring short.
I will try to contact someone from our club’s tech advisor list.

John

Cool! Corrosion happens.

Cheers, Dean

Just want to remind you of our chat site's SEARCH process, and wondering have you removed your steering wheel to inspect the components in your horn? Here is one example of an old post. 1941 Special Deluxe ring type horn.

Here is another set of old posts on removing your steering wheel Steering wheel removal problem

These articles are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this topic. A lot more can be found through the SEARCH process.

After identifying a problem, with your car, the first tool in your toolbox you should use is a complete search of our past posts for advice. I assume that about 90% of all the questions asked on our site have all been well discussed and answered in previous posts. While time takes its toll on most of us, our legacy to the hobby we love, can be seen in our postings.

Good luck, Mike

UPDATE: I removed the steering wheel in order to get access to the steering lower hub housing.
With the steering wheel upside down looking at this stuck hub housing there are 2 small slots on either side of the housing.
Now had I known that 2 small screwdrivers would have removed that stuck housing I may not have removed the steering wheel.
With my wife helper holding the steering wheel I inserted a small screwdriver in each slot and loosened the housing counterclockwise.
Inside is a spring and cup that makes contact with a brass sleeve in the steering column. I cleaned up the parts with emery cloth and replaced the housing and steering wheel. I suggest applying a very light coat of lubricant on the housing threads to make adjusting easier.
Adjusting the hub (clockwise) is a little difficult using 2 small screwdrivers backwards from my sitting position which I am in the process of completing.
I hope this info helps anyone who has this problem.
Thank you for your comments.

After reading these great posts, I decided to work on my 1940 horns. I think they are similar to 1941 horns? They’ve always had a muffled sound. I checked the grounds and they were both good.
I then adjusted the points a little at a time and was able to get a louder tone.

However, I noticed that BOTH horns are tuned to F major (for you musicians, F above middle C on a piano). One is a little higher in pitch than the other, not in tune!

Are both horns supposed to be at the same pitch, or a major 3rd or so apart?
In other words, on the piano just above middle C, play F and A together.
Is that the sound I’m supposed to get?

If the horns are supposed to be tuned to differed tones, how do you “tune” them? What do you move?

By the way, I’m a piano tuner/technician by trade. I like things to be in tune!

Thanks!
Curt

Hi Mike, I did try to search but used the wrong words I guess.
I have the read the posts you suggested and glad I did.
From the link on your post of the diagram of the Horn Contact Parts I see I am missing 1 rubber pad which I have just ordered through Chevs of the 40s. As well I have ordered a new cup, spring and screws & insulators.
The new parts might make adjusting the horns easier.
Thanks Mike.

John

Curt:

You do realize you are talking to "Shade Tree" mechanics. I do know one is supposed be High and the other Low but as what note, Please! Hot over there?

Hey Mike!

Yes it’s hot! At least the humidity is tolerable for Louisiana.

Okay, one high, one low. I’m going to call you and listen to your horn.

There is a GM video on the net somewhere where they state the two notes the horns are supposed to be. I will try and find it.

Old216,
That will be great if you find that video.

Yesterday evening, I took the drivers side horn apart and soaked the “horn” part in hot water. As expected after 80 years, a dirt-dauber nest was found. It took forever to get it out. This is one reason why the horn had a muffled sound. I’m sure the passenger side horn has the same problem.

I’m thinking each horn has its own pitch. I’m not talking about the pitch changing relative to the electromagnetic apparatus position, but the actual “horn”. Each one may have its specific length of “curved pipe” for a specific pitch, like a bugle. The vibrating electromagnetic apparatus is simply the sound source. This is what I’m thinking, still not sure.

I messed with the position of the electromagnet on the drivers side thinking I could “tune” the tone and now the darn horn won’t blow. I’ll fiddle with it later today.

I’m taking the passengers side horn off and will remove dirt-daubers from it too. I’m sure they’re in there as well.

Darn dirt-daubers!

I found both horns packed full of dirt-dauber nests. After removing the dirt and debris, I cleaned the contacts and set the points for a good solid sound.

I found out that you can not adjust the pitch of the horns. The pitch is permanently set by the length of the horn itself. The left horn and right horn have different lengths of “horn pipe” wrapped around, like the shape of a French horn or snail. For those of you that know basic music theory, the passenger side horn is tuned to E flat and the drivers side is tuned to G Major (E flat and G just above middle C on the piano). This makes a pleasing sounding major 3rd.

Before I cleaned all the crud out, both horns sounded muffled and sort of tuned to F.

So, those are the correct tones (notes) of the 1940 Master Deluxe Sport Sedan. You can not adjust pitch on these horns. If you have different tones, you got junk stuffed inside that’s gotta come out.

Curt

UPDATE: I have received my new parts and installed them on the horn ring and steering wheel. Does anyone know the proper torque for the steering wheel center nut? I have it torqued to 40lbs.
I have adjusted the lower hub housing to try to get a short to complete the circuit and I can’t get it. Tried for 2 days and had the wheel off 2x checking to make sure everything was correct but no luck. I think I am going to walk away from this repair for a while.

That is more than enough torque on the steering wheel nut. There were no published torque specs in 1941.

Most of us just make things tight. If I want to get very technical I use the torque values for Grade 2 hardware.

Hopefully a ”˜41 expert (maybe Charlie) will jump in and offer some tips about the adjustments to make the horn work properly. It seems like that was an area where Chevy changed the design frequently. Each one had its nuances.

I would suggest merely following the service manual.

The tube and steering rod must be just right height.

Best,

Charlie

I found an article at en.wikipedia.org/Vehicle_horn#Motor_vehicles
It talks about typical frequencies of 420-440 and 500 hz. I think they mention using a minor third combination.

Were you able to manually ground it with the wheel off?

40 ft lbs is more than enough for that but I would think.

The steering shaft bush a couple of inches down the inside of the column jacket has a brass ring imbedded into it, short this ring to the tseering shaft or jacket should make the horn operate.
Tony