VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc 216 or 235 engine

which is better the 216 or the 235 engine? My 49 is smoking when i stop or let off the gas. but it does not smoke while driving. I'm considering rebuilding the 216 or is the 235 better. Len

Yes! Actually depends on what you want. Do you want to keep it original or modify? If modify then why not use a LT6? Do you want it to be a daily driver or occasional tour vehicle? Drive coast to coast in comfort and at or faster than the speed limit?

So unless you let us know what are your desires it is nearly impossible to advise.

The engines are essentially the same up thru 1952 except the larger bore and longer stroke gave the 235 more power (along with larger valves,intake and carburetor).
The 1953 PG and all 1954 and up 235 engines changed to full pressure oiling and aluminum pistons.
A 216 in good condition is a perfectly adquate engine.Changing the rear end ratio to a 3.70 or 3.55 will raise your crusing speed from 60 to the high 60's but will decrease the accelleration a bit, especailly on large hills.
Your smoking problem could be caused by loose valve guides and bad valve stem oil O rings....or worn rings or plugged oil return holes in the pistons and rings.The "plugging" was common with the old low detergent oils.
If it were my engine I would purchase a can of GM Combustion Chamber cleaner (Top Engine Cleaner), remove the spark plugs, pour about 2 ounces of cleaner in each spark plug hole, let sit for a day......warm up engine take for a 10 mile ride and change oil and see what happens.Fill with a 10-30 oil.
If the oil consumption isn't excessive I would probably leave well enough alone and save $2000 + .......

Hey Lens49,

Swapping a 235 in lieu of a 216.5 is a piece of cake. Comparing the 235 to a LT6 is a joke!!

The 235 is a better motor than a 216.5...I doubt that the LT6 is a better motor than a 235.

I realize some of the fundamentalists have a problem with 235's in 216's but you might ask them why the judges allow 1931 motors in a 1930 and look the other way.

If you are not going to show it, go with the later 235 and 3.55 rear end and you will never look back.

I just got back from out local chapter VCCA 3 day tour, which was way to much fun and I am in a bit of a fog, so a ? what is an LT6?

Largest V6 engine (Diesel) - 4.3 L (4304 cc/262 in³) - 1982 GM LT6

When being judged a '31 motor in a '30 car is -30 points.

Yes, Suggesting an LT 6 was meant to be ridiculous but would emphasize the need to know more precisely what was wanted. Under some situations a 216 is better than a 235 and others a 235 better than a 216. It all depends on what is wanted. More power? Better gas mileage? More original? Easier to get parts?

To give a serious answer then more information is required. Guess others just assumed that they knew what lens49 wanted? I still don’t know.

I have many miles in '49 and '53 dipper engines AND a '54 pressure lubed. There was no comparison. The '54 outran, outpulled, and outlasted the old ones. If you want to cruise, get the pressure fed engine and low ratio rear end! That engine would pull an even lower ratio, if available.

Wilson, just think what you could have done with a 261, a 292 or even a 427 or a 454!!!! But some of us want to keep our cars ORIGINAL!

"If you want to cruise, get the pressure fed engine and low ratio rear end! That engine would pull an even lower ratio, if available."

For cruising, do you possibly mean a higher gear ratio instead of a lower gear ratio?

:confused: :confused:

Hey JYD,

Most of us oldtimers say higher gear ratios when we mean higher speed ratios, but the younger guys just go by the numbers. I now say "higher geared (numerically lower)" to avoid confusion..

Interesting huh......

Lower number = higher gear ratio.

Higher number = lower gear ratio.

Sorta simple when you know the math part of it. Sorta confusing until then.

Doesn't seem to me to be any need for someone to add BB V-8's to the discussion. Wilson was talking about in-line six cylinder engines as I read his post.

Bill.

The 235 54 engine is a perfect fit in anything from 1949 thru 1954 and with a little modification to the engine mounts, crank pully and water pump so is the later 55 and up engines, use a car engine if you want hydraulic lifters and an automatic (powerglide) or one out of a truck both 235 and 261 for mechanical lifters, they also require a modification to the engine mounts. Just be sure you have the starter matched to the flywheel you chose to install.I have found a couple of flywheels drilled to accept two different sizes of clutches.

Where is ZZorro when we need him

I just returned last night from a 2-week, 3600-mile tour from Rochester, NY to Rapid City, SD, with a side trip to Devil's Tower in Wyoming. I drove up & down the Black Hills and the Bad Lands with my '37 Sports Coupe and to & fro on I-90 without any problems at all. The only mods from stock I have in the car are a '61 235" engine, a manually operated Borg-Warner overdrive unit installed in the torque tube and 3.73 gears in the rear end. I ran the entire route at posted speeds, between 65-75mph and made the 1550-mile one-way return trip in 3-days (about 525 miles/day. For the entire trip, I used 1/3 quart of oil and got 21.7 miles per gallon. We ran in heavy rain and wind that I thought was going to blow us over, but that lil' Chevy just kept pounding out the miles, one after another! My wife is already planning our next trip, this time to Texas.

Point being, I LOVE the 235 Chevy engine - it's dang-near bullet proof, as far as I'm concerned. I still have the original (running) 216" engine and the original torque tube and could revert to the stock set-up in a few days, if I wanted to.

Go with the original stuff for show, but if you drive 'em and drive 'em hard, which I like to do, go with a 235".

Just my 2¢

-Bob

Bob,

Did you do the "surgery" yourself, or is there someone out there who does these Borg-Warner torque tube modifications? I was told years ago about someone who did this sort of conversion, but had either retired, or had since passed to "The Great Beyond".

No, I didn't do the 'surgery', just the install into the car. I bought the entire torque tube with the OD installed from a (gasp!) hot rodder acquaintence of mine who was tearing the entire drive train out to install a modern drive train.......for $100 ! I LOVE hot rodders.

The only info on the possible original fabricator, is from the January 23rd, 2003 issue of "Old Cars Weekly". That article states that B-W overdrive units inserted into a Model A torque tube, were made originally by a man named Bob Green and were subsequently taken over by a Lloyd Young. I don't know for sure, but suspect that the Chevy unit I have was also done by one of these gentlemen. The contact info given in the 2003 article is:

Lloyd Young
4915 Lithopolis-Winchester Rd.
Canal Winchester, OH. 43110

Phone: (614) 837-7832

Please let us know how you make out, if you are able to contact him.


-Bob

Hey Bowtie Bob,

Your story (and I don't mean "story") about driving your 37 coupe with the 235 is great reading!

I sort of came of age just as the 265's came on the scene in 1955 and 1956. And then my first car was a '55 two door post with a power pack 265. So I've always felt a small block, even just a 'little' 265, was were it's "at" - so to speak.

Altho I've owned a nice 54 Hardtop for nearly 30 years, my friends regularly tease me about how I baby my 54. Even tho it's a PG (with the higher gears), I rarely drive it over 55. I know dang well my dad used to drive his 54 Bel Air sedan, also with a PG, at 70mph on the open road when it was new. And yet, I just don't like to cruise mine over 55. Maybe with bursts to 60+.

Anyway, your story sort of re-affirms 1954 on up 235's are really great engines and they can take it. And so on.

Thanks for your post about your trip!!

Bill.

Thanks, Bill. Glad you enjoyed it. I've always wanted to do some long distance driving in the old cars and now that I know my wife enjoys it, we're going to plan more of them. The trip we just completed was for the Glidden Tour. If I didn't want to get back for the Carlisle swap meet, I would have liked to go on and visit my sister in southern California. Maybe next year, although my wife is making noises about driving the coupe to Texas.