VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions What does one get with Membership in VCCA?

Indeed that is true Tony.

There's a great divide on the Internet, and being able to use a computer becomes the obstacle. Many of the older professional trades people were not involved with computers, and they tend to have a difficult time expressing themselves online. These people tend to get upset at people like me who are proficient with the computer, but not as well versed in the trades. I've spent a similar 35 years at my profession as they have theirs. This is not to say that all trades people are like that, just that a good majority are.

This could hold true for a "real" mechanic, many of them will cringe at some of the techniques or methods I might use. DIY people do not always have the right tool for the job and fabricate their own or use some unorthodox method. This typically will cause tension between people who do it for a living.

Restoration is typically more DIY type folks. I'm sure there are some "real" mechanics floating around but I haven't run into too many of them with old trucks *yet*, but I'm sure they are out there.

I have learned when to take a stand or leave and forget about it. I started to get the feeling that VCC Chat might not have been the place for me, but maybe I was wrong. Time will tell.

Alan

Keroppi
I n saying this I mean no malice but I have 46 years as a mechanic but learnt half of my trade away from the workshop (moonlighting) so I know some of the unorthodox methods. Computers are a "new" thing to me and I wont say I like them though but have been forced to learn what I can do with them which means I often type something that upsets others without realizing it, and the terminology difference between us here south of the equator and you lot north does not help.
Tony

Tony,

The moderators have one of the most difficult jobs if they want to be fair. In order to extend everyone their freedom of view requires a great deal of constraint in many cases, not to let one's own view get in the way of being fair.

The great divide, as I like to call it is getting smaller as people like you are using computers more than ever. What is worrisome is how so many people, both young and old, and becoming phone zombies. I hate to mention when I go to the gym to swim, people are using their phones on stair machines, the stretching mat, in the pool, the spa, the steam room, sauna, locker room...I don't get it...but it doesn't seem good.

Alan

"I'm trying to figure out what I actually get for my VCCA membership."

Good morning Alan.

Thank you for stopping by to visit the other evening. It was nice to meet a local guy just starting a Chevy truck project. With the advent of the internet there is an unlimited array of forums related to the car/truck hobby. From what I have seen they are populated by people who are not automotive professionals and they enjoy exchanging “opinions” and anecdotal information. The two major deviations from that format that I have seen are the Stovebolt forum and the performance related division of Chevytalk.

As you have already learned the Stovebolt forum is dominated by one individual whom you have already encountered. On Chevytalk the performance moderator is a guy with the user name “Grumpyvette”. His style of presenting information is one that I very much appreciate. He briefly gives his information and recommendations and then attaches numerous links to the data that his recommendations are based on. Being a scientist (geologist) I really appreciate that style of presenting information. It is in sharp contrast to the pronouncements without any back up information that are so common on other forums, particularly Stovebolt.

Like the rest of us you will be looking for a connection with others who share your interests, skills and degree of independence/dependence on others to do the tasks that will be required to meet your objectives for your ’46 PU. I have found that connection with a couple of my neighbors but only rarely on any forums. Here's an example of the rare nugget of information on the forums, this one from Pre 68 Dave on Stovebolt who told me how to put 3.55 gears in my '36 PU:

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1289230.html#Post1289230

Good luck!

Ray W

Likewise Ray, it was great to meet you and your wife. I would love to visit again during the daytime when I can see around there, I could tell that was a very special piece of property. Most people are probably not familiar with Napa/Sonoma too well, but that area is a great area as it's not very much traffic, the tourist traps are over along highway 29. There was a really cool canopy of trees I was driving through, that would be great during the day. Reminded me of the Oakville grade, going into Napa, about 3-5 miles of hairpin twisties, it's loads of fun in my 911...but that drive up St. Helena Road would be great for an old truck cruise someday.

My problem with Stovebolt is not just that one individual, but the way the forum is moderated. I'm ok with moderation, but there needs to be some notation when a moderator edits a post, it can and does change the meaning of a post in many cases, so IMO it needs to be notated. They don't feel that way over on Stovebolt and some of my posts were edited by the moderator with no notation, so I wasn't sure what was taken out or changed. That is unacceptable, IMO, so I let them know.


This is a good thread, and I will reference it when I get to changing the ring/pinion in my pickup. I did speak with rearend specialists yesterday and they said they would charge $1400 for the labor to swap out the ring/pinion and all the bearings/gaskets in an installation kit.

Now I need to decide if I will do it myself or have them do this for me. I think it's something I can manage, and I'm pondering doing as you mentioned...just replace the ring/pinion and don't worry about the bearings at this point. I know everyone says, "while you have it apart...", but the truth is it takes an afternoon to pull it all apart, possibly only a few hours. Not the end of the world even if one was to take it apart twice, in fact one might learn a thing or two to save them some time the second time around.

Alan

"I did speak with rearend specialists yesterday and they said they would charge $1400 for the labor to swap out the ring/pinion and all the bearings/gaskets in an installation kit."

Wow! The actual gear installation and setup can't take more than a couple of hours if you bring them the rear axle and all the parts. The early Chevy style rear axle is particularly simple and quick to deal with because it uses shims rather than a crush sleeve to adjust the fore-aft position of the pinion. The process is very simple. You adjust the shim pack thickness to get a fore-aft pinion position that gives a centered gear tooth contact pattern and you adjust the side to side ring gear position to get the correct gear backlash. There's not much to it.

They're putting that $1,400 price out there because down in Silicon Valley there are techies with way more money than practical skills who wouldn't know which end of a screw driver to hold on to but don't know what to do with all their money.

If I had one of those rear axles opened up I would definitely replace the bushings and seal at the front of the torque tube. You do NOT need a special tool to pull the old parts as some vendors would have you believe. A piece of allthread and some big washers do the job nicely. On my '36 PU 3.55 conversion I found a modern double lip Timken seal to use. Beware of low quality/ill fitting bushings and seals from China offered by the vendors. The OEM GM bushings are still out there.

Ray W

Ray,

I agree, but I think it's a daunting process that scares people away from doing the work. I keep pondering and it seems that just replacing the ring/pinion and the torque tube bearing might be the poor man's road to success.

That might be true, but it matches what Mark Yeamans said about getting it done a couple months back. One thing I thought funny, he asked me if I was going to take the rear end out or bring the truck in and have them remove what is needed. I thought that odd and told him if I was going to pull the rear end I would definitely be doing the work myself.

I did buy the bushing from Gene, just waiting for it to get here. I need to wait until I can get the pickup to my house so I can do some work on it here. In thinking about the time involved in doing the work it seems best to just do the work even if I don't replace all the pinion and carrier bearings, seals and gaskets, I could probably replace the stuff later if I had to.

Before I do this, I need to get the wiring straightened out.

Alan

Why do the job twice?????? If you have it apart replace everything that looks like trouble and some that didnt look like trouble.
Tony

"Why do the job twice?????? If you have it apart replace everything that looks like trouble and some that didnt look like trouble."

Alan,

I think Tony is right. Removing and reinstalling a complete rear axle takes way more time than actually changing the parts inside the rear axle. Think of raising and supporting the truck, fighting rusty bolts and nuts, disconnecting the brake lines, extracting that heavy and bulky axle and torque tube, reinstalling everything, bleeding the brakes, etc, etc. Once it's out I would not reuse any gaskets, bushings or seals. The bearings are another matter. In nearly 60 years of driving with total distance traveled probably around million miles (362,000 on my '71 Dodge van alone) I've never worn out a differential bearing in a personal or company vehicle. The used USA made bearings are way better than any new China bearings the vendors are offering today. I wouldn't even put China bearings in Laura's vintage Eureka vacuum cleaner.

Wheel bearing seals are common parts store and bearing supplier parts and do not have to be bought from antique car parts vendors.

I also would not trust that NOS seal. The rubber is probably rock hard after all these decades..

Ray W

I don't plan to take the rear axle off, the DIY procedure doesn't require that you can just change it on the truck without removing all that.

Wasn't my intention to take it all off, but maybe it needs to come off. My impression was that you can jack up the rear end, open the diff cover and loosen the torque tube so that you can get the carrier/ring/spiders out off the truck. The torque tube comes off and disconnects from the trans, AFAICT. I will go back and look at the few online tutorials I've seen.

In that case would I get a more modern style timken type seal? I think they are thin spring steel with rubber in the center.

Surprisingly, it is not as bad as you would think, it's still ply-able. The seal is actually cork. A modern rubber type seal would probably be better.

Alan

Ok guys, can one of you explain just how anyone in the future will be able to find any of the potentially useful information offered in the previous half dozen or so posts none of which appear to have anything at all to do with the thread topic?

"Ok guys, can one of you explain just how anyone in the future will be able to find any of the potentially useful information offered in the previous half dozen or so posts none of which appear to have anything at all to do with the thread topic?"

37 Blue,

Here's how the topic evolved:

"This is a good thread, and I will reference it when I get to changing the ring/pinion in my pickup. I did speak with rearend specialists yesterday and they said they would charge $1400 for the labor to swap out the ring/pinion and all the bearings/gaskets in an installation kit.

Now I need to decide if I will do it myself or have them do this for me. I think it's something I can manage, and I'm pondering doing as you mentioned...just replace the ring/pinion and don't worry about the bearings at this point. I know everyone says, "while you have it apart...", but the truth is it takes an afternoon to pull it all apart, possibly only a few hours. Not the end of the world even if one was to take it apart twice, in fact one might learn a thing or two to save them some time the second time around."

This technical stuff is very interesting to some people.

Ray W

I believe 37Blue is referring to the fact that someone looking for the technical information would not expect it to be in a thread that is titled 'What does one get with Membership in VCCA?'. He has a point. The thread titles act as an index to what is inside.

If someone looking for info starts at the list of forums, they would never dive into this one to find information about the changing the guts of a differential.

However, if you use the search engine to find info about differentials, you might stumble across this thread.

It is up to us, the creators of the information, to keep a thread on topic and when the conversation goes off topic, to start a new thread or take the conversation to another thread that is titled appropriately.

The idea is to keep retrievability in mind when creating the information in the first place. Then, we enhance our beloved forums for the future.

Cheers, Dean

One limitations a future user will have retrieving this thread is the mixed topics in this thread. We all are guilty of getting off track with our posts. It does create some issues in the future when you use the search function, especially when you see a title for a post that does not appear relevant to your question.

Having said this I will now continue the off-track and state that $1400 is not an outrageous cost for a competent shop to change the gear set and replace all the wear parts (bearings and seals) in an enclosed driveshaft rear end. Unless you are a real contortionist it is very difficult to remove the ring gear and carrier and especially the pinion shaft with the axle in the car. Setting the pinion end play and backlash are critical. I am not saying that it cannot done with the axle in the vehicle, just that I would feel a whole lot better about the work being done correctly with the axle out where the mechanic can see and more easily reach everything.

Not sure why your post { which has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic } is here either.



The rules are clearly posted & there is absolutely NOTHING that states that any given post MUST be directly related to the original topic.

This website is designed to discuss vintage Chevrolet's & that is what we are discussing.

If you are going to be a moderator you cannot make up & or enforce non existent rules
{without breeding contempt from some of the members}.

Please read the rules so you can better do your job.... https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/ubb/boardrules/v/1



AND DON'T FORGET !!!!.....This is what is posted at the top of the page for this forum !!!!!!!!!


"General Discussions
For off-topic subjects which Chevy people might find of common interest ".


How in the hell can any post in this section be considered off- topic
when the whole damn section is dedicated to off - topic discussions ?


.

You need to read the header at the top of the page so you will know which area of the site you are in.
In case you can't see it, here is what it says.....

"General Discussions
For off-topic subjects which Chevy people might find of common interest ".



I believe that whoever created the topic can discuss whatever they want in the thread as long as it pertains to vintage Chevrolet's.






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Now back to the ring & pinion installation....
Installing the gears yourself is not recommended if you have never done it before or you are unsure of yourself.
Setting the gear lash & bearing pre-load is easy for some but if you get it wrong....you are screwed.
All you need to do is make one mistake & you risk damaging the parts you just tried to install & then you have to pay double to replace the parts & do it all over again.

Paying a shop to do the install might be expensive but it is cheaper than having to tear everything apart again to fix a screw up & replace damaged parts.

And.... if a shop does the install at least you will have some sort of warranty .

Mothertrucker,

I agree that one must read the header, and title for each forum to know what to post there. However, I don't know where you found the General Discussions header quote used in your post. Update edit: I see where your quote came from (sorry I missed it earlier).....if you click on General Discussions just above the quote, you will find an expanded version.............

Here's what I found---

.....so it seems that that "non-auto topics" do not belong here in General Discussions.

As a courtesy to all VCCA Chat users, would everyone please post in a forum that most closely matches your subject matter.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Here we go again.
The topic header says this IS the place to discuss non auto topics.
It's right in front of your face & then you make a statement that says ...
" so it seems that that "non-auto topics" do not belong here in General Discussions "

God forbid that anyone talks about installing gears here in the General discussion area.

I think some of the moderators here have lost their way.

Why do the members around here have to run circles around the moderators while beating them over the head with their own made up rules ?


.

The point is and was, there was useful technical information that someone in the future likely would have a difficult time finding in a General Discussion with a topic heading related to a membership question and related follow-up information.
If the site is to remain useful and of benefit to technical users of all skill levels, doesn’t it seem reasonable to steer topics and related results into a forum more likely to ease future discovery?

Now since this is discussion is also wandering off on an unrelated tangent, perhaps the thread should be locked.

My vote is.......The thread should be allowed to continue as there has been absolutely no violation of any of the stated rules for this section.
{other than the moderators attempt to "disrupt" the cadence & flow of the technical discussion between the paying members}.

Let me clarify what I posted earlier and put it into context of this thread.

One of the GREAT benefits of VCCA membership is to be able to use the Search Function to find valuable information within the forums.

To help the Search Function work best, it behooves Chatter posters to mostly stay on topic within a thread so that the relevant information matches the thread's title.

When a topic veers off topic, we better serve future searches when another thread is started with the off-topic information. For example, the ring and pinion discussion already has a thread started for that purpose and here is a link to it: 1946 Pickup 3.55:1 Ring/Pinion Gear change - DIY vs Shop

Best to all, Dean

Once Again......
That is a non-existent rule directly contradicting the clearly stated use of this section of the site.....

"General Discussions
For off-topic subjects which Chevy people might find of common interest ".

I am voicing my opinion about a common sense practice to help the information in the forums be more retrievable.

As I stated, how we make our contributions to the forum can enhance the Search Function and thus, add to the benefits of belonging to the VCCA.

Dean

Your personal opinion is one thing but.....

Morphing your personal opinion into a non-existent rule & then shoving it down everyone's throat to be enforced by the moderators in a section that is dedicated specifically for off-topic subjects is an entirely different thing.

MOTHERTRUCKER, ya got me howling with laughter, your doing battle with the LOCK IT guy. Seems to be his answer to everything, LOCK THIS THREAD. LOCK THAT THREAD, lmao.............calm down.

A few more posts and the damn thread would die on its own anyway.

What Mr. Lock This Thread needs to do is remove the post and notify the poster that their post belongs in ANOTHER SECTION as they have gotten off topic.


You locked a thread on me last week about the General Motors Chevrolet shutting 4 plants.

Are you so worried about hostile past employees spewing vile at General Motors thru this website. ? Plus you being the MODERATOR of this particular section that it would reflect badly on your name ?

mike lynch