VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Mechanical - Engine, Trans, etc Conflicting numbers on a '39 216

Hi folks -

A friend drug home a 216 last week, and I told him I would help confirm what he had found.

The Casting Number is 838941, which says it is a 1939 block.

The Date Code is K 9 8 which is November 9, 1938. (unless they didn't use "I" for Sept that year, I can never keep track. Either way, late in the year 1938 for 1939 production).

But the stamped Serial Number is 431642 which is very clear, and certainly does not look like a "re-stamping." I can't make sense of that number for a 1939. Can anybody make sense of it?

Thanks.

Chevrolet 1939 production began in Oct. of 1938. Engine plant probably began making engines in September.
1939 engine numbers ranged from 1915447- 2697267.
Chevrolet used the letter "I" rather than the Number "!" when they stamped engine numbers.
If the number "one" in the 431642 is not a letter "I" it has been restamped some where along the line. If Chevrolet stamped it , it would be the letter "I" rather than a number ""!".
Also numbers do not fall in the number range for 1939.

Could it be a Canadian block? There were apparently some instances of #838941 being used in 1937 from a secondary Canadian foundry. The casting number of my 1938 block is not a "normal" one for either the 1938 US or Canadian production. They did some weird stuff.
I'm pretty sure the Canadian 216 engines I have use the number 1 not the letter "i" but I will check and see how many digits as well...

update: just checked 2 of my canadian engines and they use the number 1 and not the letter. Pretty small sample size compared to what Gene has seen lol. My serial#'s were 7 digits.

Chevrolet began producing engines at the Tonawanda plant in 1938. Engines produced at the plant in 1938 had engine numbers from 1 through 10502 in 1938 and 10503-221935 in 1939. BUT Tonawanda engine numbers began with a "B" for passenger cars and KB, ATB, and TB for trucks.
The 1937 blocks and their casting numbers and the 1938 blocks and their castings numbers wer no longer made in 1939 and the replacement blocks were the 1939 838941 blocks and they had no numbers stamped unless it was a complete engine.
The engine serial number will also be stamped in the push rod cover gasket surface - necessary to remove cover to see.

Thanks, Gene and Tim for your posts -

I will suggest he pull the push rod cover and have a look! That should give us the definitive answer, if it was re-stamped, sounds like. I'll post photos here of the Casting Number, Casting Date and Serial Number.

Tim, in my opinion, if there is a '37 running around with an 838941 casting number, what that tells us is the engine was replaced at some point in the past.

Here are photos -

The links above do not work for me.

Yeah, I see that now. Ever since Photobucket kinda blew up, I've never found where I should upload photos so they work any more. Was trying a link to a different forum there, but they don't seem to cross over.....

Hey, Skipper - just for the heck of it - if you copy the address from one of those links (without the " {img} " at the beginning and end - and paste them into your browser, do they open?

What are you folks using nowadays for hosting photos on the web, so we can paste them into posts here?

I'd forgot about checking under the push rod cover. That should clear this up for you.

The Canadian casting #'s were sometimes inconsistent with the US. 838941 was apparently a legitimate casting in 1937 in Canada, though it was apparently low production from a secondary foundry. The Canadian 838941 blocks that the late David Hayward documented were late 1936 / early 1937 casting dates.

I have a couple Canadian 216's that do not match USA numbers and it's annoying.

The links would not open for me. Just post them right onto this site as it's easy now and will exist later and not wind up dead like a link...

OK, trying to learn this new software for the photos. I finally saw the "attachment" tool below. Let's see if I got it right. I had to open them and re-save them as "gif" because apparently a "jpg" is not the same as as "jpeg" which is how they were saved.....

OK, getting this figured out.

Skipper, I fixed the post up above, too. That's what I wanted to do all along - embed the photos, not just as attachments. Lots of steps, but I got there.

There were no stamped numbers found on the gasket cover area of the pushrods. (Well, except there was a single "5" which I would interpret as an inspection marking.)

The Head is dated 1937.

So, from all the above, I am going to conclude that this was probably a service replacement block which never got a serial number stamped in it on the assembly line - and then when it was put into service, someone stamped it to match the vehicle it was being installed in.

Tim
I was just rereading your post about the 838941 block casting, the engine that came out of my 38 has the 838941 cast with a stamped # R1299818 but due to position I cannot read the cast date. The head of this block is 3ft deep in other parts so it is somewhat difficult to read as well.
Tony

The serial number indicates that it is from a 1939 Canadian built right hand drive vehicle.

The 1939 Canadian engine numbers ranged from 1288953 to 1997876. That indicates the engine is from a 1939. Probably a used engine installed at one time. That would agree wth the 1939 casting number.

The RHD is not surprising considering it is RHD vehicle and the "39" as a replacement is a good possibility as well. This will be a spare engine so I am not particularly worried about it.
Tony

I was hoping you'd appear in one of these threads Tom.

What literature do you have to be able to drill down to RHD? Or just a good memory like Gene? I've seen some hand assembled data but hoping you might have GM Canada Literature.

The R prefix on the engine serial number indicates right hand drive. The range of numbers assigned to GM Canada was used for both right and left hand drive engines.
Note that the R prefix is on both the engine and the cowl tag for Canadian made vehicles.
For reference - this is an example of a 1939 RHD Chev sedan made in Canada and exported to Africa.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yaf72v5p2adaj0t/AACrMSzvYZx_hWO3sND8zhVea?dl=0

Headlighter
I am not about to shoot you down the # I posted is RHD but Australia not Africa. The other engine I have the serial # starts with "CR>>>>>" (nov 39 cast)does that indicate commercial (1/2 ton) or something else???
Tony

Tony,

Sorry if I confused the discussion by adding the pictures. They are just examples of how the cowl tag and engine serial numbers looked for a RHD export car that was built in Canada. My example was a vehicle that went to East Africa, but they would look similar for any destination IF the vehicle was built in Canada.

In Australia I believe most cars were built by Holden (so would have a Holden tag). I don't know if your truck was imported as a completed vehicle or assembled in Australia by Holden. Engines manufactured in Canada will be in the same groups of serial numbers whether shipped in a vehicle or shipped as part of a kit for local assembly.

The R prefix indicates a RHD application. For cars there is a single letter prefix (R). I'm not certain about trucks but I think they always had at least one extra letter and sometimes two in addition to the R. Does the serial number on your block with the CR suffix fall in the range of 1288953 to 1305600 or 1972801 to 1997876? If so, I think it is safe to say it was a Canadian produced 1939 engine for a RHD truck application.

Tom

Headlighter
There was no confusion on my part I had a good idea what you were indicating.
You are right about the Holden tags. Mine is body 127, I suspect Fishermans Bend South Australia plant though the Chassis and Engine may well have been imported from Canada but I have not tried to confirm factory details.
As for the serial # CR1993755 it is quite likely a Canadian built engine.
Tony