VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1937-1945 Now That Im Driving my 38 The Starter...

When starting my stock 38 216 from cold she fires up quickly. After driving her for a while I shut her off and the starter seems to drag when trying to start as though the battery where weak. The battery is new and I keep it on a battery tender when parked.
-Any suggestions?
Thank you
Michael

Michal you might have heat from your exhaust headers causing the starter to heat up and in turn will pull the shaft and the armature to one side causing it to drag. You might want to wrap your pipes with heat wrap cloth and you can buy that at Jegs or Summit Racing. I had the same problem as you on my 33 Ford Hot Rod with a 400 SB Chevy motor starter and the heat wrap cloth resolved the problem! Hope this helps!
Rory
1934 Chevrolet Standard DC Sport Roadster for sale
1933 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1934 Ford 4 Door Sedan under construction
1933 Ford 4 Door Phaeton

With a stock 216 the exhaust is on the opposite side of the block so maybe just normal engine heat affecting a weak starter?

Is the engine recently rebuilt? Everything will tighten up as the engine gets hot. This could cause a weak starter, poor ground or undersized battery cables to create this problem. The 6v battery cables need to be much larger than 12v cables and need to be in good shape or will have high resistance.

Maybe the battery is discharging while driving? What happens if you let it cool down without connecting your charger? Is it still slow to crank?

This can happen with a tired coil. My 48 used to fire up first thing and would run all day so long as I didn't stop and switch off. If I did I had to wait about half an hour.I avoided fueling up during the day because that meant staying there for half an hour or pushing the car away. My wife liked that. She would go shopping. Anyway it's an easy thing to swap over.

First two things to check are clean battery connections & properly sized cables. Make sure there's absolutely no paint, rust or grease between the cables and connection points. Make sure you are using minimum 1 gauge cables (0 or 00 is better). If you are using stock cables from an auto parts store or walmart they are 12v cables and too small.

I would second everything that canadiantim said. I would feel all the cable ends just after turning over hot to see if any are heating up. If you have one that is heating up, it means there is extra resistance in that connection. If the timing is too advanced, the motor will slow down or stop when it fires while turning over.

Battery cables? I didn't think of that. I did replace cables with new from autozone, but probably standard for 12v. Is my ammeter a good indication the generator is charging or should I disconnect battery to see if she keeps running?
Thanks again.

mike,

As stated by forgoing posts cable size is important.

Also good ground is important.

With the above items "right on" then the slow turning - after having run the engine for a while - may be owing to a dragging starter. If this becomes the problem, take the starter out and examine it. Check the following:

a. The bushings for wear,

b. The armature for dragging a against the fields. See "a" above.

c. Commutator. Use sand [a[er or a drill and file to smooth it out.

d. Check the commutator for short against the armature.

e. Check the brushes. if they are worn to the point they may be hanging up or not making good contact or as long as you are at it, replace them.

if none of this works try parking on a hill.

Good luck,
Charlie

Thanks all for the suggestions, Im actually thrilled to be driving her. My wife and I ran errands, picked up some rental dvd's as well as some tacos for dinner- fun and she enjoyed it too. Charlie, no hills in town. I used to start my 47 Plymouth having a bunch of friends push me and popped the clutch. Keep you posted as more things reveal themselves.
Michael

I will add my 2 cents worth.
If the bushes in the starter are worn the armature may drop slightly and with heat expansion rub on the pole shoes which will cause similar problems. It may be easier to check the cables and connections first before dismantling the starter itself.
Tony

About 80 degrees today and my 38 was running warm from idling, starter really dragging so i had to wait for about 15 minutes opening the hood to cool her faster. The starting issue is definitely heat related. When I drive her in cooler temps, she starts easily.

Whst is really warm when idling? It is normal for the temperature to go up at idle speed in hot weather....especially if you slow down and or stop after driving at a higher speed.

She usually floats around 180, but she was pushing 200 when idling. As soon as I drove the temp came back to around 180. Today i started her with cool temps and the starter spun slow. I guess the starter is starting to fail, no worries I will follow the suggestions by removing the starter and checking her out. Good fun overall

If you decide to follow up on the heating problem it may be best to start a new thread.

Agree, I'm creating too many threads. I do a search prior, but have not luck finding answers so I start a new one. I now suspect my problem is not heat now.

Check to make sure you have a good, clean ground with no paint between the grounding surface and the cable.

Try changing the coil, if you have a spare. Heat will affect them. I once chased a bad coil problem for a long time, before I found it.

OK, decided to take battery to check and they said it is bad. I asked how they test and what is the criteria. I looked at the report and it said, "Bad battery 12v". I asked why it said 12v? The fellow said someone tested it wrong and retested, battery good. Got ready to remove starter when I noticed the hot lead completely loose. I purchased new hardware(nut, lock washer, washer). Put everything back together and she fired right up. It will be hot this week so I will see if she is ok. My battery holder is a mass of rust shaped like a battery holder. I will purchase a replacement form chevofthe40s. Turned my heater fan on for the heck of it and it started making a an awful scraping sound, it needs attention. Thats it for now, fingers crossed.

Yep, clean and tight connections. Always the first thing to check. Cable size number two. Glad you figured it out.