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Re: Sick engine Junkyard Dog #375260 09/12/16 05:32 AM
Joined: May 2002 Posts: 6,149 Likes: 42 Goulburn Australia tonyw ChatMaster - 6,000
tonyw ChatMaster - 6,000 Joined: May 2002 Posts: 6,149 Likes: 42 Goulburn Australia	When there is wear on the rockers where they sit on the valve end when you adjust the valves the feeler guage being wider than the valve rides on the unworn area giving you a false reading. Tony 1938 1/2 ton Hope to drive it before I retire

Filling Station - Chevrolet & GMC Reproduction Parts

Re: Sick engine tonyw #375263 09/12/16 07:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	Originally Posted by tonyw When there is wear on the rockers where they sit on the valve end when you adjust the valves the feeler guage being wider than the valve rides on the unworn area giving you a false reading. Tony I'll check that with a straight edge. That may well be part of the problem. Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Junkyard Dog #375264 09/12/16 07:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	Originally Posted by Junkyard Dog Quote I went back & looked and all surfaces are convex Just because the rocker arm faces appear to be convex does not mean that the rocker arms are not worn. I can see from the photos you posted that your rocker arms are worn. If you want the engine rebuild done right you should get your rocker arm faces rebuilt. You have mentioned about the valve train noise so one way of correcting the problem is to get your camshaft reground, install new lifters, get your rocker arm faces rebuilt and replace the rocker arm adjusting screws with new units. Quote Most grinding machines adjust for the distance/radius. Any experienced machinist will get it right. This is a perfect example of Kanter's motto "Do it right, do it once."Not to make excuses, but when came the engine rebuild's turn I hadn't worked in nearly three years and was digging in my savings, so I cut a few corners.I reused most of the valve train and now it is biting me in the proverbial derriÃ¨re. Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Chev Nut #375265 09/12/16 07:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	Originally Posted by Chev Nut The large seat under the valve spring is correct for a 1934 with the original head. If the head is replaced with a new one it just uses a washer like a late 1935 and 1936. The amount of adjusting screw exposed depends on a few things such as if the cam had been reground, rocker arms resurfaced, etc. or the valves them selves. Phew, I thought I had lost some parts after reading Master Six's post. I almost ran out to look at the other engine. Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Junkyard Dog #375271 09/12/16 09:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	Originally Posted by Junkyard Dog Quote I went back & looked and all surfaces are convex Just because the rocker arm faces appear to be convex does not mean that the rocker arms are not worn. I can see from the photos you posted that your rocker arms are worn. If you want the engine rebuild done right you should get your rocker arm faces rebuilt. You have mentioned about the valve train noise so one way of correcting the problem is to get your camshaft reground, install new lifters, get your rocker arm faces rebuilt and replace the rocker arm adjusting screws with new units. Quote Most grinding machines adjust for the distance/radius. Any experienced machinist will get it right. Dog, do they need to be built up with weld first or just reprofiled? I see Filling Station offers a rocker arm rebuild service,I asked them if it would be possible to just redo the tips. Last edited by Pat S; 09/12/16 10:06 AM. Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Pat S #375276 09/12/16 10:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2001 Posts: 29,863 Eagle Point, Oregon Junkyard Dog Tech Advisor ChatMaster - 25,000
Junkyard Dog Tech Advisor ChatMaster - 25,000 Joined: Nov 2001 Posts: 29,863 Eagle Point, Oregon	Quote so I cut a few corners When you cut corners, especially on an engine rebuild, you see what happens....you end up doing things the second time and it usually costs you more time and money. The engine is the heart of your car so you want it right which means doing a quality rebuild the first time. Usually, the ends of the rocker arms are welded up and then re-ground to the correct radius. In doing so the faces of each rocker arm are all the same. The Mangy Old Mutt "If It's Not Junk.....It's Not Treasure!"

Re: Sick engine Junkyard Dog #375285 09/12/16 11:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 90 New Jersey Master Six Shade Tree Mechanic
Master Six Shade Tree Mechanic Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 90 New Jersey	Pat, the only thing I thought could be missing is a steel washer under the exhaust valve spring. Will check my engine tonight, still would not have influence on noises. Also I am not positive, but maybe the rocker arms are hardened on the valve end and if ground down too far the hardening would be lost? Good too weld them up and proper radius done.

Re: Sick engine Master Six #375286 09/12/16 11:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	Originally Posted by Master Six Pat, the only thing I thought could be missing is a steel washer under the exhaust valve spring. Will check my engine tonight, still would not have influence on noises. Also I am not positive, but maybe the rocker arms are hardened on the valve end and if ground down too far the hardening would be lost? Good too weld them up and proper radius done. I checked my spare engine and it doesn't have anything under the exhaust valve springs either. I'm looking at getting the ends of the rocher arms redone as well. Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Pat S #375292 09/12/16 02:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	OK, the local guy does them. This set of photos shows the ones in the spare engine which weren't used. They are well worn but appear to have the original contour on the edges. These are the ones I used because they were less worn. However now that you guys mentioned regrinding it is obvious that these were reground at some time, and not too evenly. I think I should perhaps get the other set done since thay appear to have more meat and transfer the bushings. Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Pat S #375295 09/12/16 02:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2001 Posts: 29,863 Eagle Point, Oregon Junkyard Dog Tech Advisor ChatMaster - 25,000
Junkyard Dog Tech Advisor ChatMaster - 25,000 Joined: Nov 2001 Posts: 29,863 Eagle Point, Oregon	Quote They are well worn but appear to have the original contour on the edges. Yes, those rocker arms are well worn too. Even though they still have a contour on the edges, the center of the face is what matters. Also, you should make sure that the ends on your valve stems are not worn either. The Mangy Old Mutt "If It's Not Junk.....It's Not Treasure!"

Re: Sick engine Junkyard Dog #375296 09/12/16 03:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	Originally Posted by Junkyard Dog Quote They are well worn but appear to have the original contour on the edges. Yes, those rocker arms are well worn too. Even though they still have a contour on the edges, the center of the face is what matters. Also, you should make sure that the ends on your valve stems are not worn either. What I meant they appear to not have been bround which would leave more meat to play with. All six exhaust valves are new. I'll check the intakes which were reused. Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Pat S #375368 09/13/16 03:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	This should be an improvement: Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Pat S #375838 09/21/16 10:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	I have all the new parts installed but before I button everything up I will lift the head. My son in law is pretty sure the spewing of antifreeze after the few last runs and the same after pressurizing the cylinders during the spring replacement are caused by a breach in the head gasket which allows gases into the water jacket. Anything I should watch for? Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Pat S #375886 09/22/16 04:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	OK, head is up. the gasket is the way it was in the engine. Do you guys think the black areas represent leakage? Also was the gasket right side up? I think I will take the head to the shop and have it tested for cracks. Anything else I should look for? Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Pat S #375887 09/22/16 04:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,379 Likes: 1 Vancouver, WA AntiqueMechanic Technical Advisor ChatMaster - 10,000
AntiqueMechanic Technical Advisor ChatMaster - 10,000 Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 10,379 Likes: 1 Vancouver, WA	I am really impressed. A super nice car, shop well laid out and equipped, a nice table and clean to lay out the parts, disassembled parts laid out in groups. Would like to see some pictures of the car when reassembled. Keep up the good work. RAY Chevradioman http://www.vccacolumbiariverregion.org/ 1925 Superior K Roadster 1928 Convertible, Sport, Cabriolet 1933 Eagle, Coupe 1941 Master Deluxe 5-Passenger Coupe 1950 Styleline Deluxe 4-Door Sedan 1950 Styleline Deluxe Convertible 2002 Pontiac, Montana, Passenger Van 2014 Impala, 4-Door Sedan, White Diamond, LTZ 2017 Silverado, Double Cab, Z71, 4X4, White, Standard Bed, LTZ If you need a shoulder to cry on, pull off to the side of the road. Death is the number 1 killer in the world.

Re: Sick engine AntiqueMechanic #375900 09/22/16 09:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 30,701 Likes: 141 West Allis,Wi. Chev Nut ChatMaster - 25,000
Chev Nut ChatMaster - 25,000 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 30,701 Likes: 141 West Allis,Wi.	Yes, that is where it was leaking. If not done before the head surface should be resurfaced. The old copper clad gaskets should have a sealer applied on both sides. I prefer the old single layer dark gray (asbestose?) head gaskets and they do not require a sealer . The sealer will be a semi-liquid in a bottle like Indian Head. Gene Schneider

Re: Sick engine Chev Nut #375914 09/23/16 07:10 AM
Joined: May 2002 Posts: 6,149 Likes: 42 Goulburn Australia tonyw ChatMaster - 6,000
tonyw ChatMaster - 6,000 Joined: May 2002 Posts: 6,149 Likes: 42 Goulburn Australia	The top close up pic of the gasket certainly doesnt look good and I would suspect that is the leak point. The other end isnt as bad but may well have been leaking as well. I think you may well have prevented a ride on the tow truck, he will be upset but stiff bickies to him. Tony 1938 1/2 ton Hope to drive it before I retire

Re: Sick engine tonyw #375918 09/23/16 08:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	Originally Posted by tonyw The top close up pic of the gasket certainly doesnt look good and I would suspect that is the leak point. The other end isnt as bad but may well have been leaking as well. I think you may well have prevented a ride on the tow truck, he will be upset but stiff bickies to him. Tony Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Chev Nut #375919 09/23/16 08:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	Originally Posted by Chev Nut Yes, that is where it was leaking. If not done before the head surface should be resurfaced. The old copper clad gaskets should have a sealer applied on both sides. I prefer the old single layer dark gray (asbestose?) head gaskets and they do not require a sealer . The sealer will be a semi-liquid in a bottle like Indian Head. I'm taking the head in to be checked while I have it off. If it needs dressing, it'll get it. I think my head wasn't torqued down enough. It took very little effort to crack the bolts and they unscrewed by hand after the first turn. I'll ask the engine shop for some of that sealer as well. I had installed it dry. Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Pat S #375925 09/23/16 10:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	Went to the parts store and this is what they recommend: Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Pat S #375926 09/23/16 10:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 30,701 Likes: 141 West Allis,Wi. Chev Nut ChatMaster - 25,000
Chev Nut ChatMaster - 25,000 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 30,701 Likes: 141 West Allis,Wi.	Yes, that is a more modern version. Torque the head bolts to 70 foot pounds. Gene Schneider

Re: Sick engine Chev Nut #375929 09/23/16 12:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	Head checked out OK. He told me to check the depth of the bolt holes to make sure they don't bottom out and give a false torque reading. He said he's seen that on engines where material has been taken off both the head and block. Not an issue with studs & nuts. Best Regards, Pat

Re: Sick engine Pat S #375930 09/23/16 12:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,472 Likes: 26 merrimack nh m006840 ChatMaster - 7,000
m006840 ChatMaster - 7,000 Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 7,472 Likes: 26 merrimack nh	might be a good idea to clean out the holes with a bottoming tap to be sure no crud is down inside. After cleaning use an air nozzle wrapped with a cloth to blow out any remains. Steve D

Re: Sick engine m006840 #375931 09/23/16 01:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,511 Likes: 47 San Leandro, CA Rustoholic ChatMaster - 3,000
Rustoholic ChatMaster - 3,000 Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,511 Likes: 47 San Leandro, CA	I agree with Steve about cleaning out the bolt holes, but after chasing the threads, I suggest vacuuming the crud out of the holes before blowing them out with compressed air. Also, check the bolt length to make sure the bolts are not bottoming out in the hole and therefore not pulling down the head. I seem to remember a rule of thumb that says thread engagement that equals 1 1/2 times the bolt diameter is adequate for strength. More than that is wasted bolt length. Cheers, Dean Dean 'Rustoholic' Meltz old and ugly is beautiful! Lurch (1927 LM 1 ton truck) Lurch's Gallery Forum Justin (1928 AB Canopy Express) Justin's Stovebolt Gallery

Re: Sick engine m006840 #375932 09/23/16 01:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON Pat S OP ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Pat S ChatMaster - 1,500 Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,869 Kapuskasing, ON	Originally Posted by m006840 might be a good idea to clean out the holes with a bottoming tap to be sure no crud is down inside. After cleaning use an air nozzle wrapped with a cloth to blow out any remains. A bottoming tap has a flat end right? Best Regards, Pat

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