VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1946-1948 1948 Engine Rebuild

Well - I mentioned months (!) ago that I would be rebuilding the engine in my '48 after I had a connecting rod go bad on the way to the Six Cylinder Tour last September. Now that this year's tour is fast approaching, I guess it's time!! I also figure this will give Charlie something new to watch in the 1946-48 Forum as his interest in jacks seems to be waning. Cousin Dave is going to be helping to make this happen and Wednesday is set for the day to pull the engine. Dave has convinced me that the one piece rear main seal modification developed by Tom Wolcott ('40 Tech Advisor) is the way to go, so we've actually been working on a different block in preparation for the engine rebuild/swap. Below are pictures of the '48 as she currently sits and the new block that's headed into the car.

I know you know this, but be careful with that 3 legged engine stand with a 216 on it. They can tip over real easy.

It looks like the block has been slightly decked and the cylinders have been bored out. What are the details on this block as we begin? How about you post a picture of the rear main area, so we can see what it looks like before the one piece rear main oil seal goes in.


dtm

Where can we find info about this one piece rear main seal ?

If you are using the same oil pan as was used when the rod burnt out I would check the oiling pattern.....A rod just doesn't burn out with out a reason.

I've heard their is a up-coming article to be in the G&D.

Gene - we have the gauge, so we'll check the nozzle pattern again before installing. There was absolutely no babbitt left on #2. It would be nice to figure out why!

Mr. Toolman - you want me to take the block off the engine stand to take a picture??? Okay...

The oiling article in an up-coming G&D may be my 216-early 235 article. If it is aiming the pipes was not included.
I always checked the aim by using low water pressure from a garden hose and see where the water is aimed. Also lets you konw if a line is obstructed.

Hello Chev Gene: I also like to use the original Kent Moore aiming nozzles with low water pressure. It is an easy procedure to verify that ALL of the nozzles are aimed in the correct direction and that they hit the target correctly. I use the original nozzle bending tool which was a part of the original kit. We will definitely be using the aiming tools for the new engine. I also want to use the Kent Moore tools on the old engine pan to see if that is a reason for the destruction of #2 rod.

dtm

Yes, correct thoughts.

Yesterday the engine came out of the car. Took Cousin Dave and I a couple hours to unbolt the remaining items and lift it out.

Best of luck!

Would like more pictures. Would like to see both sides as to exactly where the hoist chain is bolted to the motor/trans..etc....

Make sure to take pic of all the mods for the seal, in case Dave loses his.

Boy does that bring back memories!!!

Looks like fun. I'll be checking in on this one. Good luck with the rebuild process and can't wait to see a leak-free 216

Leak Free....ya,right???

The chains on the engine leveler were bolted to the threaded stud on the flywheel housing which holds the starter AND a bolt thru the hole in the engine block that is next to the generator mounting bracket bolts.


dtm

Ah, yes, it was the best of times, it was the worst of times. Hate to have to need to do that stuff, but also a lot of fun!

I still say that engine died because Cousin Dale ran it a few thousand miles on the interstates at 65 mph trying to keep up with Wildman - I mean Toolman - in his' 66 V-8. I was there many of those miles.

If he is going to run with the V8 he better change the ring and pinion.....that will let it run 65 with no problems.

Everyone is waiting for the "rest of the story"

Well - we're on hold at the moment. We're putting on the 52nd Central Meet next week in Hudson, Ohio so it's been busy. However, the bigger issue is that the rods, which were machined for insert bearings, and the crank are at the machine shop to fit the insert rod bearings to the crankshaft and to balance the pistons and rods. They're thinking a couple weeks, which really isn't a problem given the Central Meet schedule. We have been interested in the discussion on main bearing clearances. Gene is saying .001, while we were following the book and setting them at .002 to .003, which took one shim on each side. Will probably remove a shim.

The 1949-1953 shop manual says .001" to .003" for new bearings.
As soon as the "high spots" wear off you will have.002=.003"

Thanks, Gene. That's now the plan.

Gene: Sent you a PM

Dick

Sort of figured that was why we were not hearing anything. I guess that means I won't be seeing that 48 Conv at the meet !

This year or next year

Hey!! :-)

No - the '48 is definitely not coming to the Central Meet. At the moment it's even looking iffy for the 6 Cylinder Tour.

to decarter: What do you mean that the 6 cylinder tour if iffy? It WILL be ready. Just talk to your mechanic and feed him DQ Blizzards.

dtm

Did he just say "feed him to the buzzards?"

Nope, Dairy Queen Blizzards:

http://www.dairyqueen.com/us-en/Menu/Treats/?gclid=CPGjmcik5sYCFY9ffgodKaQOJQ

Dean

Well, we started yesterday with high hopes! Cousin Dave came up to spend the day as we had everything back from the machine shop and were ready to assemble this engine!! We first put the crankshaft in and the front engine plate. Then we went to put the camshaft in, but it didn't seem to fit. Even after hitting it repeatedly with a 10 pound sledgehammer we couldn't get it into the engine (just kidding). So, we took it back to the machine shop. Oh yeah, he says. Cams never fit in. Probably need to line bore out the cam bearings. Seems like something he might have mentioned earlier - like I installed the cam bearings like you asked, but your cam won't fit. With my very limited experience with new cam bearings, in the past the cams have always slipped right in. So we're waiting for him to fit the camshaft. Meanwhile, the 6 Cylinder Tour is creeping up on me...

Why is it,those we pay are the last we can trust???

So - Today we were back in the engine rebuilding mode. Cousin Dave showed up at 8:30 this morning and we continued where we left off a couple weeks ago when we didn't have all the parts and before I went to Virginia. Below is a chronology of our progress through the day. There is a pretty long gap in the late afternoon when we went in to watch General Hospital and One Life to Live. We had real trouble (!) getting, of all things, the distributor in. I'm using a new camshaft and the distributor and camshaft gears just did not want to mesh. Finally got that done, but decided it was too late to put in the car, so Cousin Dave is coming back on Wednesday.

Guess I have to post twice to get all the pictures to load.

Dale you are definitely the winner of the great engine re-build race!!!We should also file those pics for the perfectly correct blue-gray paint....Great looking job, my friend!!!

When I had my 216 done, it took the guy a year

Is that the extra high heat paint 1200-1800 deg. on your exhaust manifold and tranny?

The 48 engine has been a typical engine rebuild except for one or 2 glitches. The distributor driven gear is an extremely tight fit with the camshaft drive gear. Maybe a burr or other interference issue on the brand new NORS camshaft?

dtm
ps. Cousin Dale was kidding about watching General Hospital in the afternoon. We quit for 2 hours to watch Judge Judy.

He could have gotten done much sooner if he wouldn't have called me every five minutes for advise.

Did Dale restore that ol' convertible and neglected to do the engine? Mercy!

Dale:

a. Did you use a fiber cam or an aluminum one?

b. Did you install the dippers in the right direction? When the engine is upside down it makes everything seem to rotate backwards. Now that you have it all buttoned up, what do you think?

c. You are luck to have help. I hope you installed the shifter on the transmission before installing the assembly. Won't matter until you try to hook up the vacuum stuff.

d. What are you going to use as a break-in oil?

e. The color sure does look dark. Must be the photographer's fault. Was that from the FS?

Good luck with it,
Charlie

Question.
If you live in Australia do the dippers face the other way?

And if the oiling system is working correctly the fiber timing gear will last for over 100,000 miles in a 216 engine.
Dale rebuilds his engines every few thousand miles.

Our dippers are in the valve cover, the rocker gear is in the sump.

Good thing I am wearing my VCCA regulation hip boots. It sure is getting deep here.

Dean

That sure is a thing of beauty Dale!! -- Not you of course, the eng and car!!

Jim

OK, it is Thursday, is it in?????? Running???? Can hardly wait for more pictures!!!! Much good luck. Skip Judge Judy and stay with it!

Well - yesterday was Day #2 of the frantic engine rebuild, as we try to get this thing ready to leave on the 6 cylinder tour on September 13th. Below are the pictures from yesterday. The good news is that the engine is in the car, it turns over nicely, and it looks very pretty. Bad news is it hasn't actually decided to start yet. Cousin Dave and I are still sorting that out (distributor off a tooth?) and will continue work later. To answer a few questions - yes the paint is from the Filling Station. Yes - it sure is dark, but EVERYONE says they have the best color match. Yes - we did install a new set of timing/crankshaft gears and the cam gear is aluminum.

Just wondering? Why did you decide to treat the intake manifold the way you did?

The intake and exhaust manifolds were bolted to the engine when the engine was painted. The manifolds and attaching parts were all "engine color".

And we all know how long that engine paint lasts on an exhaust manifold!! I had the exhaust manifold ceramic coated. Intake is just painted to closely look like the exhaust manifold. Hoping the exhaust manifold stays decent for a while.

But of greater importance, here in Ohio at about 1:30 PM, EDT, we officially threw in the towel on trying to get this engine ready for next week's tour. We've decided this "interference" fit we have with the distributor and camshaft can only lead to bad things like metal in the engine and so we've decided to pull the camshaft and sort out what's going on. Unfortunately, with the engine in the car, that's going to involve removing a lot of stuff to get access to the camshaft. Who would have thought we needed to trial fit a distributor while it was on the engine stand...

Dale

"Just asking" Did you try another distributor to see if you get the same kind of interference. I've been messing with these old six cylinder engines since the early 50s and never encountered that sort of problem. I've ran 216 distributors in 235s and vice versa without any sort of interference with the cam gear. Its a PITA to pull that cam out in the car.

Dang, I am so sorry! Don't know what else to say.

Hello Mike: We tried a second distributor with the same results. We took a third distributor apart. The cast housing fits fine with no interference in the block. The 1/2 diameter distributor shaft fits fine in the oil pump when the distributor driven gear is removed from the shaft. It's time to remove the NORS camshaft and inspect the camshaft driven gear diameter, pitch thread, thread depth, etc.

dtm

So it's going to be the cam that's the problem.

You can still make it for the 6 Cyl Tour, you have 10 days!

Great photo series.

We thought about pulling the camshaft in the car, but upon further reflection (!) decided it's almost as easy to just pull the engine & tranny again. It looks like the grille would definitely have to be removed and the cam and harmonic balancer are below the level of the front splash apron so you'd probably have to at least lift the engine up for clearance. Might as well pull it and leave the grille intact. You've got to disassemble just about everything anyway to get the camshaft out. Such is life!!

Gene - just not going to happen. :-) Besides, Dave leaves on Friday next week. We only have 7 days...

Dale/Dave

Never heard of such a thing. Foreign or US made cam? Yep, you'll have to pull the grill. Pull the engine if you can. Unless you've modified the timing gear cover you're going to have to pull the pan too. You'll be up and down so many times your quads will hurt for a month.

I hate it that Murphy is still alive and well. And, he always strikes when you are in a hurry. Let us know what you find when you get the cam out.

Mike - will do! It's an American made cam by Engine Pro.

ChevGuru - sorry I didn't read that post carefully enough! I should have known that given our past performance Gene would never think we could do this again in 10 days. :-)

and...7 nights. Think positive! I know you two will do it and have time for a few break-end runs. Good luck.

Dale/Dave

Ruscar is right. You've got plenty of time. I changed a timing gear on my '40 in a rest stop just west of Yuma in one night and morning. 'course I had port call in San Diego the following day. Can't miss ship's movement, you know.

Fired it up after getting it back together, leak checked it, rough set the rocker arms (did't have a feeler gauge) and didn't shut it down until I was shipside in San Diego.

It was a good experience. Had the highway patrol and truck drivers running parts for me.

I was also only 28 years old. Makes a big difference.

Engine Pro, huh? And American-made, too! Wow, that really spooks my confidence, since I'm the midst of trying to locate decent quality parts to rebuild a '54 235. At this point, it's getting hard to know who you can trust anymore when sourcing parts for anything older than a 350 SBC! I hope you have better luck in obtaining another cam.

Best wishes to you,

Dale,

So very sorry to hear of your problem. Am positive that with your attitude, you will no doubt persevere. Best to you.

Jim.

Dale,

Shucks! I'm sorry you're having difficulty with the distributor. I hope you get it sorted out soon.

I don't know about the debris in the engine but I hate to see you have to take it out to sort all that out. I know you said that you would work on it in the car but that is a mess to do.

I would suggest you review the procedure for installing the distributor on more time. You may just be missing an important step.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Charlie

BTW: The engine is protected by a screen. So don't worry about the debris. It'll just sit in the bottom of the crank case and do nothing. As they move around from time to time they will keep the bottom of the pan clean. Will too!

We came to our senses and decided to just pull the engine. Taking a break while the kids/grandkids are visiting for the holiday. Will pick this back up after the Six Cylinder Tour and figure out what's going on!

Dale with all the positive encouragement, we know you'll get her done

Do 216 and 235 distributors interchange in a 1948 engine? If so, what is the difference? Could the camshaft be a 235 cam instead of the 216 it is suppossed to have?

dtm

Dave

I ran my '40 216 distributor in a '54 235 for about 4 months while I was rebuilding my 216 and did not have any problems. Found out later (from this forum) that there are differences in the advances. Had to time by ear since I was also running the 216 flywheel on the 235.

If there are any differeces in the cam gears I couldn't tell it.

The 1937-1962 distributor gears are all the same EXCEPT in 1954 the material was changed. The pre 1954 engines had a cast alloy iron camshaft and the dist. gear is of the same material. The earlier engines had a forged steel camshaft and a steel gear. The exception is the change was not made in the solid lifter engines until mid-1954. The cast alloy iron cams can be identified by the extra wide gear teeth on the cam.

At one time Chevrolet sold the two different gears for replacement and new distributors were sold accordingly. Then they discontinued the early gears and sold the alloy gear for all applications and eleminated many of the distributors selling the later style for all applications.

I have never heard of a iron gear eating a steel or vice versa.

In general 216 engines have much more centrifical advance at high RPM's than a 235.

Well, then that settles it. It is time to remove the NORS camshaft from the block and measure the camshaft gear. It's time to see why the camshaft will not accept the 1948 216 distributor that we have used for the past 6,000 miles.

dtm

I do not know if there are cam bearings in a '48 block or not. If there is this might be the problem. Did you put new cam bearings in the block and have them line bored? If so is is possible they mooved the cam just enough to be giving you the problem?

Just a thought.

New camshaft bearings were installed by the local machine shop. This machine shop is talented in balancing crankshafts, line boring the main bearings, etc.

dtm

Dale; Where do we stand on your motor project??

Dick

Dale: What did you find out about the cam gear? I'm curious to know what the problem was.

Dale, or anyone else who has painted their engine with the dark gray FS paint, did you use hardener in the paint??

Thanks in advance,
Alan

I'll jump in. I think that I used a flatener(?) a long time ago (thinking that it would FLOW better/smoother). But then I discovered that it doesn't need it.

And spraying it on sheet metal works great... but on cast iron, you can EASILY get by with just brushing it on. It really does FLOW nicely as it dries.

And-- I never thought that it needed a hardener either. But if anyone else has, please let us know your experience.

No, I did not use a hardener. As Bill just mentioned, it does flow out beautifully on the block & head using a brush. I also bought the spray cans for the sheet metal parts. Just note there is not much paint in the spray cans - about half of what is usually in a spray can that size so they go quickly. I did not try to brush on sheet metal.

Thanks for the replies. I purchased the quart can (actually came in two pints) and of course plan to spray the sheet metal and may also spray the block if I can get my spray gun in the correct positions. I'm painting it with the engine in the car. So I have a lot of prep work to do; removing parts, cleaning, masking and etc.

Alan

So --- Cousin Dave and I finally got back together to sort out this engine rebuild. As you may recall, the distributor wouldn't fit! Strange, I know, but it just wouldn't go in. So, we pulled the engine, figured it was a bad/wrong replacement camshaft, but after disassembling the engine and checking the camshaft we discovered it wasn't the problem. Seems that perhaps we installed the oil pump too deeply and missed the alignment indent where it is anchored. Distributor slipped in just like it's supposed to. Having found the "solution", we proceeded to put the engine back together - you know, timing cover stuck back on, oil pan, head, lifters, push rods, rocker arms, distributor....oh wait, the distributor won't go in.

How is that possible!!?? So --- we disassemble the engine again (!!!!) and think again about what would keep the distributor from sliding in. Turns out - and we really, really think this is it - that the oil pipes that attach to the oil pump was pulling the oil pump enough to one side that the alignment was off enough to prevent the distributor from engaging. With some adjustment to the line fittings, everything seems to be fitting properly and the engine is mostly back together - again. We'll attack it some other day and get it in the car! Whew!!!

Let's hope that is the final time you have to tear down for many many years

dick

Cousin Dave and I did finally get everything sorted out and the engine is back in the car and sounds great. We put about 5 miles on the car before the Christmas holidays and everything seems to be good! Still have the hood to put back on the car before I can say we've finished the job.

Dave how about so pic's...Make sure you include the engine bay with that new fresh 216!!!

Thanks for the Dale & Dave story. Very interesting. I'll look forward to seeing the car on the Six Cylinder Tour in Michigan.

Absolutely!! Looking forward to driving it this summer to the Central Meet and Six Cylinder Tour.