VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1946-1948 216 rebuid

I persoanlly use one of 2 local machine shops in the Canton, OH area. One machine shop is relatively organized, employees wear blue uniforms and their machines look well cared for. I had my 216 block magnafluxed, flushed out, decked there. They also balanced my crankshaft and ground the mains and rods to .010" .
I am impressed with them. The other machine shop that I have used many times is located in an abondoned looking gas station. When you walk inside, it is somewhat unorganized and looks like they cleaned the place a year ago. Their work is superb. The 3 machinists are experts in almost any type of engine, especially big horese power blocks. They have tons of knowledge about 216's and they work at a good pace. Most people would walk in and immediately turn around. They definitely would never win the good housse keeping award, but their quality is nearly unmatched. Sometimes looks can be deceiving.

dtm

Sorry but I would not do anythng that 1941specialdeluxe suggests.
This engine is 67 years old. May have 136,000 miles on it. It was legal in Wisconsin for a dealer to xero the speedometer when selling a used car. Back in 1947 I saw these 3 year old egines badly worn due to infrequent oil changes with poor oil to boot.
If new pins are not fitted and the rings are tight the pins will be clucking at idle. If you drive the pistons out as suggested without cutting the ring grove you will damage the pistons. wouldn't think of doing it without adjusting the bearings.
The valves should be ground on a proper valvgringing machine as well as their seat and to the seat width as specifief in the shaop manua. Years ago they didn't know berrer and lapped them in and ground valves every 10,000 miles.
If you don't do a overhaul job at least do a valve job and drop the pan to make sure the oil pup screen is not plgged-up.

Where did this car come from? It seams I saw it at a VCCA Meet years back. A good original 1957 Fleetmaster 4 door with original marooon paint if I remember correctly....and it was for sale at the time.

Dave: I just sent you a PM

Dick

Style,

This procedure has ALWAYS worked well for me, not messy, no slop, just a clean way to find the culprit.

It is a 1947 Chevrolet - not a 1957.

Rangerart71,

Gene and we all know it is a 47 and not a 57. The 5 in the place of a 4 is a typo error. FYI, there is no one more qualified than Gene (Chevgene,Chev Nut)to provide you the best advice available, and no one more dedicated to our wonderful hobby.

Good luck, Mike

I see all kinds of good suggestions here...To numerous to comment on...I just down sized my old shop...Got rid of things like my 'ol Shore Boring Bar that you could re-bore without removing the engine...Ring groove cleaners...Valve grinding machine...And talk about dirty shops...I worked at one that had all the surplus from building our "Liberty Ships"...I bought a few...Still had "Property of the War Dept." on them...I've restored them for fun...I learned at lot working with these old "Dutch" machinists that escaped the Great War...Wouldn't trade the experience for the world...

I recall my first 235 "exchange" short block...I Think it cost me $269 bucks...$4,G's for a rebuild these days, drives me nuts...

Gene,

With respect, the man said that the engine had 36K on it. To suggest that the odometer has been rolled back in this instance, if merely a fishing trip. We can assume that he knows what in the h--- he has. Given that information, I don't see why he can't do a ring and valve job and expect it to run well. Poor oil and infrequent oil changes are another assumption that is not implied by the owner's post. Better suggest he check the the block (and oil pan for a rod) hole in the side of it, too. Etc, etc. Mercy!

Removing the groove at the top of the cylinder before taping the pistons out is elementary as is other things I didn't mention for the ring and valve job.

These type minor overhaul steps have been taken for many years with success. Let's not assume that someone else's suggestion is worthless and that a major rebuild it the only way to go. There is a big difference in price as well as expectations involved. My suggestion involves the cost of a simple tool, some valve grinding compound and a gasket set and a set of rings.

The ring compressor, the cylinder hone, the ridge cutter and the straight edge can be borrowed (or us a square carpenters tool. It would result in a good running engine for many more miles until a more extensive overhaul or rebuild was warranted. Again I cite the owner's statement that the engine has "36K" on it. He can check the wrist pins when he takes the pistons out. Elementry, too.

Implying or inferring that another's advice (touching the high points of a minor overhaul) as worthless, out of hand, is unfair. I ain't Happy (or any of them other elves for that matter). Makes me look like an idiot. I don't need any help.

If money is no object and/or show quality is wanted then I would recommend you advice. I didn't take the owner's post as having that in mind.

Best,
Charlie

Hi Charlie, Hi Gene,

I think you both need a big hug and a little sun shine and warm weather. What if we all meet in Key West for a little R and R?

Best wishes to you both, Mike

P.S. On a more serious note, gathering opinions (educating ourselves) and then deciding how you want to approach a problem is what this hobby is all about. We get all our boyfriends advice then we decide. Hugs and more hugs

I am sorry - I did not mean to ignite a firestorm. When I was 16 my Dad purchased a 1947 2 door stylemaster for me. I am now 71 and going back to my childhood I guess.

The car does have 36,000 almost 37,000 miles on it. Was in storage. I have a lot of Irish Spring bar soap to prove it was in storage. Was brought out and a lot of work done to it to bring it to what it looks like now.

For some reason most of the money invested was in other things rather then the motor. Everything - I mean everything works on the car. The interior is fine - the paint job is a 15 footer. The brakes are all new. And on I could go.

The engine was left lacking so I have been doing everything that I know of to bring it back to running like I know it should. New valve cover gasket - new oil pan gasket - everything I can think of that can be taken off the engine and replaced with new has been done - spark plugs, wires, coil, carb - points - rotor - cover - etc. Steers tight - new tires all around. It does have - what i have grown to expect - the usual chevy leaks - a little from the transmission and a little from under the block. Tranny, rear end and engine have all had their fluids changed.

Compression test - 1)90 2)95 3)90 4)95 5)85 6)95 The 85 pounds really bothers me and was tested three times with he same result. I know that the compression should be better then this and may be causing the problem.

Also, know that it burns some oil and blows blue smoke when accelerating and when coasting. I have tried checking the vacuum and will do that again using the ways suggested in this forum.

I have seen no one giving me bad information only information to assist me in fixing this car because we are all "old car" lovers.

I want to thank each on for their advice. AND, accept with thanks anything suggested in the future. Blessings - Art

That doesn't mean we can't be friends....we just have diferent opinions.
I will stand by my suggestions with my many years of experiance (almost 65 years) with these engines.
I could go on and on but in short I don't believe in patch jobs.

With 85 compression on number 5 and 90 to 95 on the other five does that suggest anything to you? I do not have my manual at my desk - what is the suggested compression?

All of the cylinders being within 5-10% of each other is more important. It sounds like you have a weak cylinder. Could be rings or possibly a leaking valve. I'd bet on ring lands filled with crud.

Hi Art,

In 1941 the suggested pressure was 110, I assume your 216 is the same. Your manual has some good pointers on compression issues.

I do appreciate your above detailed background post. It is always easiest when we provide as much detail as possible. It eliminates a lot of assuming on every ones part.

Glade to know you have had the oil pan off and have most lively cleaned out the pan and oil pump filter screen. It tells a lot about your cars maintenance. I have a 47 block which has an almost sandy textured buildup on its rods, crank, and inner engine surfaces. Its oil pump screen and oil pan were in very poor condition. I would find it hard to believe that it would not need a complete rebuild to be a good engine again.

Good luck, Mike

P.S. I can post some pictures if helpful.

When these engines were new it was common to have 120 pounds compression. 110 would be a minimum for good performance.
You could do just a valve job to get smooth and better performance. If compression rings are bad general performance would still suffer. Would actually increase oil consumption and smoking due to better vacuum.

My '37 216 had a slight idle problem. Went thru the tune-up, including the carb and carb change.

With a vacuum gauge I discovered a 1" fluctuation. Checked my manual and one of the causes listed was a valve not seating correctly.

Did a compression check and found only a 5lb differance in the #4 cylinder, all others were the same.

From my repair shop days I had an air line adapter for the spark plug hole. With the compressor supplying air, I hooked it up to the #4 cylinder and found air was leaking out the tail pipe. In my case, burnt exhaust valve. But a sticking or misadjusted valve might also be a problem.

You can use this same set-up for each cylinder to check for worn/bad rings. If air is coming out of the valve cover or road draft tube, worn or frozen rings would be the culprit, hence blue smoke.

If air comes out of the carb, bad intake valve or misadjusted intake valve.

You sure can...They have a tool for that, though...It's called a "Leak Down Tester"...Most auto parts stores should carry them...If not, flag down your local Snap-On truck...Your method is less expensive,though...

As an amendment to my previous post.....If you have a compression tester with flexible screw in adaptors for different types of heads/spark plugs, remove the schrader valve and you now have an adaptor to perform the test I described.

The leak down tester would be the best way to determine leakage if you know what "stock" ring loss is rated at. But yes, I think the adaptor is the quickest way for anyone to check the condition of the cylinder seal by the rate of air loss and what area the loss is evident .....thru the carb......out the tail pipe ......or out the draft tube /valve train (valve cover off).

I agree...I think you'd get more "bang for your buck" by using your method...Going to machine a special one up for myself...
Simpler to use and with more control over the air pressure, easier to hear where the leak is coming/going...Thanks for the tip...

Thought: Have found several nice 216 engines and one nice 235 engine.
!) Are the 216 and the 235 interchangeable.
2) Besides losing numbers matching on my 47 what are the ramifications of buying a 216 or 235 that I have heard run and installing that engine into my 47.
Would be much less expensive. Thanks

#1 -required changes depend on year

#2 You may be getting an engine that is worse than what you have.

#3 I would keep the original

First question, what years are the motors in question?
Gene beat me again, by 21 seconds.

If you are concerned about originality, keep the 216.

If you do not care about the originality, get into a full pressure 235.

Or get a 261. About same change-over issues as a 235 and then, unlike on a 216 and a 235, the oil filter, receiving full pressure rather than a relative mere trickle, will become more than just a decoration. Choose a 235 or 261 with hydraulic valves and it will be quitter, too!

Charlie

Not all 261's have an full flow oil filter and no 261 trucks had hydraulic lifters. You would have to find a Canadian Pontiac passenger car 261 to get the Hyd. lifters.

Now go back to the original question. He is looking for a (pardon the expression) cheap way to get a better running engine in his 1947.

Seeing the car is a nice ooriginal I would vote for keeping the original engine.