VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION VCCA Judging Questions Exterior visor

Would an exterior visor be jugded as a body panel?

I wouldn't think so but you never know what is going trough a judges mind.

Did they deduct for the "wood"?
To be correct it is not a Chevrolet item.

Gene I have no answers yet,maybe a week or so..The only place on the judging form which could apply to the visor would be body panel,which would be a mandatory -25..I would guess the the wood would fall there also...I do have a lot of documentation of the wood being dealer installed by aproved chevy dealers,this would include Chevrolet History Pictorial 1940-1954..The judges had no questions about the wood

The exterior sun visor should probably be judged as an accessory since it is an accessory item and not standard equipment. And, if it is not a genuine Chevrolet accessory points should be deducted.

Unless I am missing something..If the judging team follows the judging form specificly,there is no place to judge and or qualify accessories?

That is correct....but for a more complete and comprehensive judging form there should be a specific section for accessories.

Things like outside sun visors, fog lights, radios, fender skirts, a compass and etc. are accessories.

The way the judging form is set up there can not be a specific category for accessories. Otherwise some vehicles would effectively start with more or less than 1000 points. They are included in the appropriate section depending on the Judges discretion. If they are approved Chevrolet accessories and in good condition then there will be no deduction on the judging form. However, if they are either not an approved accessory or have condition issues they are subject to a deduction proportional to the other items in the category where they are placed by the judge. Accessories can only be a deduction not a credit.

The visor would be part of the exterior judge's responsibility. As JYD had mentioned, it must be a GM accessory visor that was offered by Chevrolet. GM had a contract with the company to offer the Country Club package. The name of the company slips my mind right now. It would be similar to SRC making the convertibles in the early 80s. We have had Country Clubs judged before and there would be no deduction for that. Bring your documentation with you and let the team captain know before they judge. There are categories on the judging form that will cover an incorrect sun visor. There is room under "body panels"= 50pts to work with and "top"= 20, where the judge could decide to deduct. As long as the team is consistent with those deductions things should add up fairly.

I believe you are incorrect. There was no connection between the "outside independent company" and General Motors.
The company sold the kits to Chevrolet dealers that were willing to install them. No different than the Truckstel overdrives....or Fulton visors for that matter.
Another example would be the Cadillac conversions on 1956 and 1957 cars who's name escapes me at this moment.
There were a number of other "goodies" the outside concerns would peddle to Chevrolet dealers because it was the largest passenger car market in the country.

The judging of accessories or modifications that are not specifically included in Chevrolet published literature is a very slippery slope. Are Yenko modifications accepted without deduction? Greenwood Corvettes? Then you have the bodies supplied by commercial body companies. Ambulances, fire trucks, limousines and ?? And then the accessories offered by Chevrolet dealers that were not in "official" literature. Guess what we need is judging guidelines for each year and model specifying what is acceptable and not. They exist in some form for most of the pre-55 cars and trucks. Anyone want a project?

Guys, we have already set a precedent with the Country Club package. We have three of them in the system already. I think we are going to have to be open to some of the examples that you all have given. Woody wagons, SRC conversions into convertibles, hearses, ambulances, fire trucks, ice cream trucks, yes, even Yenkos, in my humble opinion. A few years back we presented a motion to the BOD to have a "Special Interest" class. It was set up similar to HPOCF and CDPC. It included most of what we are talking about. Other examples were airport limos, speedsters and a whole lot more. The motion fell on deaf ears.

It has been long over due but the Judging Program needs some attention. Perhaps an assessment of some kind. It would be nice to have a revised and fresh program ready for 2016. ??

Gene, nothing got OK'd without Chevrolet's approval. The brass at GM were aware of the 4x4 drive lines , the visors, Country Clubs, and though I wasn't there to verify, don't you think GM gave the go ahead? What about Cantrel, SRC, SLP? Yenko, Fred Gibb, Nickey, Balwin, Dana? They were given the go ahead from above, I am fairly certain. I think we need to take another look at the program. Chip's "project" is something to consider.

If yo are going that far out the wording in the judging manual needs to be changed.
Like any "outside material and accessories are acceptable as long as it specified for 19xx Chevrolet"

I guess it would be like saying any year engine is OK as long as it is the same displacement as the original.

Or personalized cars can be judged.

Hey Gene,
I think the worms are getting out! Seems like we have been here before. How many modifications or special cases are acceptable?

As the Judging Committee found out several years ago trying to accommodate a member by granting a variance leads to others that only want to move the barrier just a tiny bit further and allow their personal modification. It that case it was the same person. Granted a powerglide transmission because of problems with his legs. Once that was done he wanted air conditioning.

Is there a definition for dealer installed?

?One piece of documention I use for my 48 wood package comes from the STANDARD CATALOG OF AMERICAN CARS 1946-1975...It states in the 1948 historical footnotes"A unique accessory sold by Chevrolet dealers this year was the woodgrained Country Club trin package,produced by Engineed Enterprises of Detroit Mich.,but sold only through factory authorized dealer for $149.95.It could be ordered for the Fleetline Aero Sedan,and the Fleetmaster Town Sedan or convertible coup,but few cars" were so-equipped

From the Judging Manual
C.Philosophy
that we as club members are comparing our vehicles to how the manufacturer delivered the vehicles to the dealer
"and to the public"So this may mean after additional accessorys may have been add by the dealer??

For documentation you need material from Chevrolet.Just sold through Chevrolet Dealers doesn't mean it was a Genuine Chevrolet part or accessory.
There is a long list of things the dealers sold, especially in the 1946-1948 years when Chevrolets were in short supply and the dealers loaded them up with a lot of accessories.

Chef - I didn't mean to single out your car please forgive me. Gene

No big deal Gene,if we ignor the wood trim package the only non-GM item on my 48 would be the Fulton visor and if it was not judged as a body panel I should be doing OK from a authenticity stand point

Incorrect






Before GM started making their own accessory sun visors {sometime in 1952}.... they farmed out the production of their car visors to the "Dieterich" Company.

Dieterich already had a long history of producing aftermarket visors & I am sure it was a lot easier to contract with Dieterch to adapt one of their existing visors to fit the GM specifications.







I have a GM NOS Chevy car sun visor that is still in the original GM box. {part# 986433, Group # 10.201}.

It is in an official green & orange GM accessory box....

And... the box clearly indicates that the visor was made by the "Dieterich Corp".












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The earliest use of an official GM accessory outside sun visor that I have ever been able to document was in 1949 & that would have been {GM part # 986324} Sedan visor.

This visor was also produced by Dieterich & it was identical to the later visor {986433} except this visor did not have the stainless molding trims on the leading edge.







The question still remains....


Since the configuration of these 2 visors {which were not actually made by GM} will only allow them to fit the 1949-1952 car sedan models & they were made at the specific request of GM to match GM specifications ....

Would these 2 visors be considered "Official GM Accessories" ? or "GM Approved Accessories" ?


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Nice piece of GM documentation Mother Trucker! I have said this many times, we all have to be "life-long" learners and some flexibility has to be built into our judging system. We need to continue having dialogue as well whether we agree or disagree. In the long run, if egos don't get in the way, we can come to a consensus. I feel Chip's suggestion for revision and assessment of where we are at is needed. Thanks MT.

That is why many accessories were labled Approved GM or Chevrolet accessories.
As an example the visor is considered correct for a 1950 Chevrolet is because it falls into the catagory in the judging manual. There is says parts or accessories shown in Chevrolet Parts catalogs, literature etc.
A few other examples in 1950 is the lighters were made bt Casco, wheel discs by Lyon, windshield washers by Trico and some hub caps by BLC.
In 1938 The accessory head light beam indicators were made by Ternstetd, truck roof vent by Evans, vent shades by Auto Ventshade co, outside mirrors by American Automatic Devices, Locking gas cap by STant, spot light by Unity, and on and on.

The "Karvisor" is in the 48 accessory manual

I sure would like to know more about that one.....
& what the GM part # & group # is on that visor because it sure looks like a cheap generic aftermarket visor that would have been sold at places like Western Auto.