VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1949-1954 Rubber or Graphite rope seal?

My 53K mile 216 in my 50 is leaking more now that the original rear main seal has been replaced with rubber. the repairman used a rubber seal from Obsolete. I notice that chevy's of the 40's state that the rubber seal does not seal very well on pre-55 cars. So is the concensus opinion that a newer graphite seal should be used instead of an original abestos seal or a rubber seal? Does anyone have a recomendation on vender selection? Are the rope seal installation tools still available and where may I source one? Input is apreciated.
Richard

That is correct. The rubber seal is for 1955 and up engines only. The grove is too deep on the earlier engines and the lip of the rubber seal does not contact the crankshaft. There is another active thread with more info. running at this time.

Wll Obsolete should not list them for the earlier engins like they do. chev's of the 40's also list them as the right gasket, but has the warning they may leak in the details. they have probably caused some foks, like me, time and money. What about the installation tool? Graphite seal? Is the othe thread started by orgcrate? If so, it has strayed off to heating problems.
RR

It is my understanding, according to what I have read on this and other forums, that the asbestos rope seals worked the best, however, asbestos seals are no longer produced. Your next best option is a rope seal from a company called Best Gasket. The key to a leak free( for the most part) rope seal is proper installation. KD-492 made by KD tools, is a tool made for installing and removing rope seals. The next question is going to be whether or not you can successfully install the rope seal with the engine in the vehicle, The rope seal has to be packed very tightly into the grooves on the main cap and block. The ends have to be trimmed neatly at the parting line. While it may be possible to do the job of replacing the seal in the vehicle, it is an easier job with the engine removed. Hope this helps

alog lists the rubber gasket for 1955 and up. When Chevrolet sold the rubber seal for replacement back in the '60's the parts book listed it for 1955-1962. At one time the Filling Station listed it in their catalog as for 1940-1962. I cautioned them and they changed the listing in their catalog to 1955-1962.

Yes Steve the info on KD-492 helps, I hope. It is described as a tool that allows rear main seal installation while the engine remains in car. The bad news is they are not available and on back order. They have given me a December delivery date. The information I receive from vendors is that Best Gasket makes both the rubber and graphite rope seals. A particular vendor tells me they have a few of the old abestos seals left. Should I ask to buy one of these. do you want to wade in on this Gene? Any other opinions will be appreciated. I am scratching my head in Kentucky.
Richard

It's my opinion that the original (asbestos) seal would be the best choice and I would get it while it's available.

what ever happened to when we were younger a tool we called a sneaky pete it always worked for us if not mistaken ive got one in my garage somewhere

That's what the KD-492 is

I guess this is what yu are talking about Steve:

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/kdt492.html

Never had much luck with ole Sneaky Pete. He always let me down about half way over the top (pulled loose from the new seal). I've used #20 safety wire twisted down as tight as possible about 1/2 inch back from the end of the seal, ran the double wire over the top, lubed the seal with gun grease, started the seal, had worker #2 rotate the flywheel in the direction I was pulling and pulled the seal in. I've never had the wire come off. The wire needs to be twisted down at least 1/2 inch back from the end of the seal so that it doesn't puff up the end and make it almost impossible to start in the groove. Take the spark plugs out so the flywheel is easy to turn. Never had much luck getting the old seals out either. Sneaky's screw didn't work at all. Just pulled out of the seal. Used a flexible wire with a pointed hook on the end that I would drive the wire in a short distance each time and pull the old seal out piece by piece. Great patience and frequent lubrication of spirit (BJ preferably) are required. I always get about 30-40,000 miles on a seal before it starts leaking more than a quarter size spot.

I have gotten nearly as good results by driving a piece of #9 wire or coat hanger over the top in the top of the seal groove. The wire compresses the seal enough that it stops leaking. I have never had the lower half seal leak. The top seal leaks because of wear allowing the crank to lower slightly away from the top seal.

Like Mike says, the tool made especially for the job doesn't always work so well. As I posted earlier it is easier with the engine removed. If you have patience, perseverance, and some enginuity it can be accomplished with the engine in the vehicle, however it won't be an easy job. Since you have the rubber two piece seal in there now, removal of that will be a little easier

Yes that is the correct tool

We always loosened ALL the main bearing cap bolts a turn or three. Oiled the bearings and also the groove. Then the sneeky pete would pull out the old seal (if the screw pulled out could grab the seal with pliers and pull it out, sometimes needed wiggling and pushing a wire into the groove from the other end) and slide in the new one without much problem. We also crammed as much of the seal into the top groove as possible as we tightened the rear main cap.

well fella's thanks for all the help. KEEP IT COMING! The shop has come and got my fleetline and the re-repair will begin Monday. He was not receptive of the rope seal idea. I hope he will read this and take advantage of all of your experiences.
Richard

I could check my stock within a day or so. I probably have an original 1940 seal that I would sell.

dtm

I've a 1950 Chevrolet, Toolman!

I've always heard to run with a NEW rope seal...There are some older posts around describing how much to leave on post-cut for best results...I'd be scared to let some one else do it...! ( unless time didn't allow it )

No Kevin, I have a lot of time. It is a disability that will not allow me to do the work. I also lack facility, tools, and
skills, I admit. I hope this does not eliminate my participation from the hobby. I am beginning to think that may be the case. Hiring help, be it mechanical,domestic, carpentry, electrical, plumbing, or farm help is one of the most challenging, intimidating and futile aspects of my life. Capable folks with integrity offering services are hard to find. Speaking of futility: Where do I find "some older post around"? Well it may be a mute point because I may have located a nice 235 already swapped into a 52,having all of the swapped issues resolved. What I will try to do is pay a friend who has done this swap before in his own shop and HELP him. I think toolman meant he had a NOS seal available, not a used one.
Richard

I think it might have been stovebolt.com that had some useful information I was thinking of...Did you try a running an advanced search here...?

Yeah, thanks Kevin. I did an advanced search before I started the thread on here. I have been to stove bolt.com and have read some stuff. I think I may have discounted them because arn't they a truck site? I will go back; I could tell they had good postings. Actually, the thread here has some very specific info that should benifit an installer. A local regular repir shop is confident they can do the job, and are willing to learn from this thread, IF I DECIDE TO TRY AGAIN!
RR

Each one of us has limitations on what we can do. Finding people who are actually capable is a real problem. All you can ask is as long as there are people that will do the job and stand behind their work and not charge if the work is not sufficient.