VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND EARLIER 1933-1936 rebuilt engine to tight

New to the forum and we really need some help. My friend & I had the engine from the 33 rebuilt at a local machine shop. All new bearings pistons rings etc...After installing it was so tight it wouldn't turn over with any of the plugs installed. (Starter,battery,cables are not the problem) After contacting the machine shop they told us that they farmed out the crank work to a "specialist" and were concerned when they couldn't turn the crank with the new bearing work complete. The specialist told them that it had to be that way and 75 lbs of torque were necessary for setup. Is this crazy?? On top of that they forgot the rear oil passage plug and when we tried to build initial pressure with a dog attatched to a drill with the distributor out oil came pouring out of the rear. Does anyone know of a machine shop in the Sonoma Ca area that has real knowledge?? Your help would be greatly appreciated

Hi stoboro
The only person I know in within a 200 mile radius of Sonoma is Gregg at Cal’s Machine in Oakdale. 209-847-1810 470 S 5th Ave Oakdale, CA 95361. He seams to be pretty good at Babbitt work, they mainly do Model A stuff but can do just about anything. I’m going on memory here but I think the specifications for clearance on your crankshaft should be .0005 - .0015". It should turn over by hand when all the mains are torque. Rod clearance is .001-.002” I think. I can send you a scanned page with the spec if you need it. Send me a PM with your email if you do. Good luck.

I had some engines rebuilt by a good babbit man and he set them up as you described. He had me tow the car with plugs out for about a mile or so in third gear to limber things up, said they used to put new babbit bearing engines on a stand when new and burnish in the bearings. Remember too that the pistons and most everything else are tight also. after I towed the car I started it and ran it a couple of minutes for about ten times and then it was ready to carefully break in. After about 2000 miles I checked clearances and all were .0015.

Before I would tow the car and loosen up the babbit bearings, get the oil leaks fixed and put a full crankcase of Valvilene or Pennzoil 5W-20 conventional or whatever you prefer (not Synthetic) motor oil and once you get the engine running on it's own change to what you will run in the engine. With the sparkplugs out the only resistance will be the friction of the pistons and crankcase bearings. Have you been able to turn over the engine by hand? or by jacking up a rear wheel and rolling the wheel over with the transmission in 3rd gear? be careful pulling the car in gear, get up to about 15 MPH with the clutch pushed down and slowly let the clutch out, trying to keep the wheels from sliding or the clutch slipping, Have the battery fully charged and after you get the engine turning over after pulling ia around see if the starter will turn the engine over. I had to do that with my first 34 Chevy truck when I put in new rods, but I had gas in the tank and sparkplugs, the engine would start and run at a fast idle after being pulled for a 1/2 mile or so. but that was a long time ago when I was 13. We didn't have booster cables till much later, or battery charger at home then, so the only way to start a car with a dead battery was to pull it around the quarter section, back to the house, work on the engine and go around again till it ran.
All my driving was on county roads and rabbit hunting in the pasture.

Its common for a 1933 starter to not turn over a "fresh" engine. If it were mine I would jump it with a 12 volt battery. If it still dosen't turn over either the starter is bad or the bearings are too tight. The 12 volts will not harm a good starter just keep the cranking time down to 10 seconds at a trial. First I would try it with the plugs removed.

I have not cranked the 33 after the rebuild that was done over the winter. Finished the wiring harness, and soldering up the lights today. The crank was in great shape during the rebuild, so the mains could be replaced with standard mains. All I know is 2 were perfect, and the 3rd was within tolorances. So the question would be, do I have a better chance of this pig cranking than if I had needed precision mains? 2nd. Because the valves are set so tight, (.006intake and .008exhaust)does that play a part in hard cranking? Or might be part of the original threadsStoboro's problem?

Thanks for the help...We have the original shop manual that clearly states that after the crank has been set up "turn the crank by hand" After that, without rods, it is connected to a "run in machine for 45 min". The engine will turn over without plugs, but even installing a single plug will keep it from turning more than an anemic couple of revolutions. I did consider 12 volt option, very tempting, but the starter rebuilder warned against it. Actually we did try to tow it...lots of tire marks on the long driveway, and then the fact that they left the oil passage plug out maybe we're lucky it didn't start. I have rebuilt post-war 6 volt engines, tight yes, but this is extreme. So there seems to be two diverging paths, tight crank on setup (75 lbs of torque??) or able to turn it by hand. Maybe we should take a vote. I will contact the machine shop in Oakland...More opinions are better!!

The valve clearance adjustment won't cause extra friction, however sticking valve stems in the valve guides can cause bent and broken pushrods. Myself, I wouldnt tow a car with an engine that can't be rotated with a pry bar in the flywheel ring gear teeth, I think that is TOOO darned tight. Are there shims in the rod bearing caps?

The valves guides are good, not sticking. With great effort and a 24" pry bar you can turn over the engine using the ring gear teeth. By the way, what is the consensus on initial run in at first start? The machine shop recommended start and run 2,000 rpm for 20 min, something common for cam break in on more modern engines.

when I asked that question, it was just long enough for the entire engine to reach 175 degrees. hot and expanded.

I have a freshly rebuilt 216 block with only the crank installed (no rods/pistons). I also need a breaker bar just to turn the crank over. Once it's moving, it doesn't take near as much effort to keep it turning but the amount of initial force surprised and concerned me.

When I asked the machinist about it, he said it was normal as the babbit had a fair amount of "grab" until burnished. He said 5min of run time and it will turn more freely...

Stoboro,

I had the same issue with my '34 engine that sat for almost 20 years after it was rebuilt. I thought at first it was frozen as I could not get it to turn over by hand or even with a 12 volt jump.

What worked for me was to pull the plugs and squirt a liberal amount of MMO (Marvel's Mystery Oil) in each cylinder and let it soak. I did this two or three times and after about 4 or 5 days it began to turn over with the 12v jump. So, at the advice of a mechanic friend, I continued to turn the engine over for about 20 seconds at a time with the 12v jump, twice or so a day as I had time. I was able to get the oil pressure gauge to move up to about 10 lbs which made me feel good. After a couple of weeks I began to notice it was turning over easier so I put the plugs back in, made sure both the 6v and 12v batteries were fully charged, pulled at the throttle (a bit too much) and the choke, hit the starter and ZOOM it started right up. It scared the #@* out of me as I did not think it was loose enough yet.

It now starts with the 6v battery if I do everything right (not sure what that is yet) but I keep a fresh 12v and jumpers close by. I'm beginning to think I need to choke a it bit more after pumping the gas before I try to start it but worry about flooding the engine.

Is there anyone out there that can tell me the nature of the '34 carb. and how to best start these engines? I know the trick on my other (brand) carburetor engines but I am still learning on the old Chevy.

Try to start the engine without any choke. If after 5 seconds or so it does not start pull out the choke fully and immediately push it back in. The engine should start unless it has been an extended time since it was last started. In that case you may need to keep the choke pulled until it first fires and then push it in. That process seems to work the best for me. By the way never choke a hot engine. If anything push the accelerator pedal 1/2 or more open when trying to start a hot engine. Todays gas is more prone to percolate and put gas into the manifold giving a rich condition.

I can tell ya right now the clearances werent proper. Being a machine shop, they should have noted this AND corrected the problem. A good rebuild is not so tight to were you have to jump the starter with a 12 volt battery or tow the car (no pun intended) and im PRETTY positive they didnt do that from factory. Trouble is with modern machine shops are that when it comes to OLD engines, 90% are not knowlagable in this department (a problem i see personally more often than i'd like) and the fact that out of those 90%, they leave any problems to be revealed last minute like; by the owner after the owner has spent a few hours installing the engine, only to be utterly and quite literally, dismayed. Hard to find a good...GOOD machine shop these days. It payes to be mechanically inclined.

I have found that mine starts best when I run the elec. fuel pump to fill the carb., then shut It off. I pull out the choke, pump It twice, pull out the throttle and hit the starter. It starts right away! I then adjust the choke until It warms up. Works for me!!!!
Richard

Stoboro, Yesterday I put the fuel my 33 and turned the key for the first time since being rebuilt over the winter. No turning this bad boy with a 6 volt battery. Actually sounds exactly as you describe. the 6 volt must have been solidly charged, cause the engine had a hard time trying to turn, the starter was trying and after 6 or 7 seconds of the power going to the starter(which was not turning much at all) it started to puff smoke.This was detected by the second man at the engine, and I stopped trying to crank immediatly as no to burn it up. the same conversation is going on over at the 32 forum with a 31 or 32 truck. I'll call the rebuilder today, and tell him to bring a strong 12 volt when he comes,I guess. I will post the results later today.
Maudslay

Drag it to the top of a hill and then try to turn it over in third gear or roll a bit and hit the starter and let the clutch out.

If you feel you must bump start the car, you'd want it to be in second gear and i dont beleive you'd want to engage the starter becouse you'll tare the bendix up.

Tight engine = third gear start, you will not harm the starter as it will spin out when the engine starts. Back-fire (Advanced timing) is what will cause starter damage.

Thats just not something i would do. It's against my better half ill just say.

Hello,
I don't mean to highjack this thread, but I'm in the same boat. Is has be awhile since I've posted--much going on at work and otherwise. The engine in the 36 is newly rebuilt but very tight and the starter will not turn it, at least with spark plugs in. We're going to try the tow method probably--also there is a fairly long hill that that we could drift the car off of and tow back to the top as needed.

What is the recommended break-in procedure for a newly rebuilt 207 with the 4:11 differential--especially one that is really tight? I've put in 10w30 oil--will that be ok? Specifically, how long should I run it on the first start up and subsequent start ups? How should the break-in be done when driving--how long and at what speeds?

Thanks!

I always wander about tight engines. Did the rebuilder loose his calipers? No testing of each rod mounted, forgot to check the fit of the bearings, failed to check end gap on the rings, just don't understand.

My prefered way to run-in an engine is to run it for about 10 or 15 minutes and then let it cool down for the first few times. I don't let them run at a slow idle if possible and run at various speeds. For your engine I would keep the road spedd down to 35 MPH for the first hundred miles but don't be afraid to run it up a little and then back -off. If it is the rings and pistons that are tight it will help if you put a pint of 2 cycle oil in the gas tank.
Sometimes is more that the starter is just too weak to turn the engine over at anything more than average needs. When you do et it warmed-up you will find the turning it over will be even more difficult when hot so don't shut it off unless its parked where you want it to be for the first miles.
Keep us posted...........

I start first time and run only a few minutes or so (3-5) and listen real close then start it again and run it ten or so and check everything out before running it any more.

When my 36 engine was freshly rebuilt It was tight and hard to turn over. I admit I used a 12 Volt jump to help It start faster. I also had overheating problems. Feeling that there must be something wrong I rechecked all clearances that I could get to without tearing down the engine again. Everything seemed to be fine. I would run It every day until just before It would start to overheat. After several weeks I no longer needed the 12 volt jump and It would even idle in warm weather without overheating. Be patient, It just needs to break In assuming clearances, timing etc. are correct.

Do run It at different speeds to allow the rings to seat properly. Years ago we had stationary engines that were run at a constant speed and the rings didn't seat properly. We had to run BonAmi thru the carb. to get them to seat. NOT recommending this!

My engine now starts easily on a wet cell 6 volt battery, but wow it starts almost before I hit the starter with my Optima battery!

As always, just my opinion, but hope this helps.
Richard