VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Trucks and Vans Lost Title? Where do ya go from here?

Been looking at a '53, 3/4-ton that is about a 6 or 7 on the 10 scale but it doesn't have a title. Supposedly it had repairs done to it and the guy didn't want to fess up the money and just abandoned it many ago. The repair shop sold it to a friend who has had it a few months and he wants to sell it now supposedly because he doesn't want to start another project and need the room.
Has any one had any experience with “Titles Obtained by Bond”?
It sounds like I need to get a written estimate of it's value and then my insurance company can issue a bond for half the estimated value. After three years if there is no claim against the vehicle it becomes mine. Does that sound right???? I was wondering what happens to my bond if someone does step up with a title before the three years?
The answer the lady at the local Illinois DMV gave me when I asked how I should approach a vehicle without a title was simply, "turn around and run!" I'm sure if that approach was used every time a 55 year old vehicle popped up without a title, there wouldn't be to many vintage vehicles still around. She did give me the “Titles Obtained by Bond” form however. I guess it would be pretty foolish to start a restoration on something like this until the three years was up and the title was in your name. I’m not sure if I’ll be up to starting a new project at 70 but that sounds like it would be my only option.
The truck still has old faded collector plates on it and was last licensed in Wisconsin. The present owner says he tried a search and Wisconsin records only go back 20 years.
I'd appreciate hearing anybody's experience with a similar situation.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

"Turn around and run".....the lady at the DMV gave you some good advice. I would listen to her. Buying a vehicle without a clear title could turn out to be a nightmare. The three year wait would be enough to stop me right there, especially if someone can still step up with the title in that period of time and claim the truck.

Here in Oregon an "abandoned vehicle" title is available and it is fairly easy to obtain. And, once you get it the vehicle is yours. Don't know about your state, but I would rather go that route than a title obtained by bond.

First thing to keep in mind is that the state title people deal in modern vehicles and only occasionally with "antiques" so are not familiar with the differences between them and modern.

A bonded title is often used when the title paperwork is "lost". I have used a bonded title in a few cases without any problems. The process is for the state to issue a "bonded" (temporary) title which is backed by a bond. In my cases the bond amount was the value of the vehicle and not 1/2. If someone submits paperwork (a highly unlikely occurrence) claiming ownership then the state decides who gets the vehicle and who gets the money from the bond. The problem is if a significant amount of work has been done which might not be covered by the bond. If additional expense is contemplated then raising the bond amount is an option.

In this case I would suggest you go back to the repair shop and attempt to get them to get a "mechanics" title on the truck. I am sure each state has its own laws dealing with people not paying for repairs and leaving the vehicle with the repair facility. Each has a provision for the repair shop to be able to get ownership of the vehicle so it can recover some or all of its bill. Most repair shops have had to go through the process so the they already have a relationship with the state title people. So the process is relatively easy for them. They can then provide the paperwork to you.

I know that Wisconsin collector plates are issued to a owner. If you have more than 1 collector your plates have a letter following the number. I have a plate that my father originally got in 1973 and he transferred it to me. So it may be possible to track down the last owner / owner of the plate.

Well thanks for the comments guys. Been doing a bit of searching over the last 24 hours, (in between shoveling snow) and I got in touch with the Wisconsin DMV myself today. They did a search of the VIN and plate numbers and they have no record of either. So it appears that it has been sitting for a long time.
Talked with my insurance company and here’s the story. Surety Bond will be a minimum about $100 for a $10,000 three-year bond. The bond is held by the state of Illinois for three years. I am issued a clear title. If there is no claim against the bond then it just goes away after the three years. If there is a claim against the bond then the owner gets the appraised wholesale value plus 1/2 from the bond, but the truck is mine.
So I’m going to take a chance on it now that I know I won’t loose the truck and all I put into it if there is a claim against the bond.
So the next hurdle is to get a written estimate of the wholesale value. I’m going to stop in to my local GM dealer and see if they can do the estimate. If so I’ll just stop when I bring it home and have them do it then.
Tks again,
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,
Good luck with your truck and title, I hope all goes well.
Also, good luck finding anyone at your local GM dealer who would even know that your truck is a Chevrolet if it didn't have a nameplate on it. I wouldn't bet a dime on any GM dealer near here.

Mike

Denny
In some states the bonded title also allows you to charge x-amount of dollars per day for storage during the time you have the vehicle in the bonded state if the person come to claim it. I've used the bonded method with success. Good luck...Joe

Well, big set back today. I contacted the Illinois Secretary of States office to get a "Bond Packet" which has all the paper work that is necessary for this and the first question out of her mouth was, "how did you acquire the vehicle?" When I said that the person that has had the vehicle in the family for decades because the original owner had abandoned the truck because of a repair bill that was to much, she said "stop right there, the state will not bond an abandoned vehicle, or a vehicle that has a mechanics lien against it or a vehicle that was left in an estate or a repossessed vehicle. If any of those situations exist you have to get a court order for a nation wide search by the state police and then the court can classify it as salvage and a salvage yard can then take it. Then you could buy it from the salvage yard who would then be the legal court appointed owner and then you having proof of ownership could apply for a Title Obtained by Bond.
Simply having a bill of sale from several owners does not prove ownership.
In other words a perfectly restorable complete vehicle will no doubt have to be scrapped or parted out because of this process. Hell of a world we live in isn’t it!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, just a side bar, a friend of a friend of a friend knows someone in the state police and got him to run the numbers thru the national stolen vehicle database and registration data base and there is no record of this vehicle anywhere in the US. I also manage to find the average appraisal for this truck and all of this hassel is over $2100. So I guess the advice that the first lady at the DMV gave me "turn around and run" was the right answer after all.
So, I guess it's time to put this one out of mind and move on to another project.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny,
Before giving up I suggest checking with the repair shop where the truck was abandoned. They can apply for a title and then transfer it to you. If you run into a brick wall there then it is not worth the time to get it straightened out.

All ready been that route Chip, since the truck was passed down to that guy when his father died and left him the shop, it falls under a vehicle inherited in an estate and Illinois will not hold a bond for that. He still could not prove ownership, he would have to have the truck declared as salvage, and go thru all the court proceedings. It's one of those deals where they just keep running you around in circles till you've spent a lot of money and finally give up.
Moving on with other projects.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

It is a shame that these situations exist but best to let someone else mess with it.

Denny: It is a smart move on your part to forget the situation and just move on. As I mentioned previously, the lady at the DMV gave you some excellent advice! In many cases buying a vehicle without a clear title is probably not a good idea because of all of the hassle, paperwork and politics that a person has to go through. It is just not worth the headaches.

I won't even buy a parts car without a title because here in Oregon you can't scrap it or dispose of it through legal channels later without a title. The scrap yards and the wrecking yards are no longer allowed to take a car without some kind of an "official title". That's why many vehicles end up being dumped in the woods!

Guess the greenies in AreWeGone have done shot themselves in the foot. Now the pollution will be spread all over the back country and without any official paperwork they will never be able to trace the owner or perpetrator of the dastardly deed. Maybe spotted owls will nest in the hulks? If this is a political or out of context comment then I apologize.

Actually....your comments are pretty accurate!

OooooK by me Chip, after what I've been thru this week I would have to agree with ya a hunert percent.
Same here in Illinois, ya just can't take the stripped out hulk into the scrap yard and dump it, it still is a vehicle as far as the Secretary of States Office is concerned and you have to prove owner ship some how. I talked with the Junk yard yesterday and with out a title he's got to fill out a form and get the law out to check it out and sign it off as salvage. a lot of hassel on his part so don't expect a $100 bill when you take an untitled junker into him.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

I would take my chances and look for a title on line, or buy a $500 parts truck with a title. It is not unusual for the titles to be lost for 50 or more year old vehicles. I titled a 29 coupe with a title bought for $30 on ebay. I got a 34 and a 35 chevy truck title on craigslist for $50 each and both were used to title vehicles. I currently have an extra 30 sedan title that was aquired for $20 at a swap meet. I don't have an extra 30 sedan yet, but when I find one I'll have a title for it.
If you spend some time looking, titles are all over the place, for that truck a late 47 all the way through 54 title would work, and replacement vin plates are readily available.
If it turns out the truck is hot and you changed the numbers you'll have to answer for that and it won't be pretty, but if it are confident the seller is being honest about the history of the truck, what do you have to loose? I would definitely get a bill of sale from the seller, if he/she isn't comfortable providing one, run away like the lady said.

That's to much like illigal gambling 131, I'd rather go thru the proper legal channels or not at all, so I've chosen not at all.
Denny Graham
Sanwich, IL

Denny, you definitely made the right decision! Going the purchased title route is not a good thing, especially if the DMV is wise to what you are trying to do. Last I heard they still don't serve beer in jail.

OK I have something to ask about this. I also live in IL. My dad passed away in June and left me a 1928 in EXCELLENT condition...one problem...he did not title this car because he was going to finish completely first.. he bought the car from my uncle who passed away after selling it. The lady at the DMV told me I could do the bonded title thing also, but I saw in your post not if it's part of an estate? I also bought this car from my sister (we split dad's estate) can she give me a bill of sale?

I suggest you get with the probate attorney or judge that handled your fathers estate. One of them should be able to tell you the best way to handle ownership of any item.

Jodie, here is the fact sheet from the Illinois Secretary of State, Vehicle Services Department for Titles Obtained by Bond.
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/pdf_publications/rtopr26.pdf

On the first page, under “Applying for Title:” The note at the bottom of paragraph 1 states in bold letters, “Note: A bond cannot be used to obtain titles on abandoned vehicles, repossessions, mechanics liens of estates, or to remove a lienholder”

Again, a bill of sale does not prove ownership. I can give you a bill of sale for the Mercedes that I just stole off the next block and that doesn’t mean that I own it. The old Brooklyn Bridge scam is a prime example of that situation.

DG