VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - 1945 AND NEWER 1949-1954 A very odd thing.....

I'm in love with my 49 Chevy 4400 grain truck. A lot of the enjoyment I get is from using her. I've moved from South Dakota to Proctor, Oklahoma (just east of Tahlequah) and have a beautiful 33 acre piece of Cherokee County. The land has never been cleared so there's enough wood to heat the house forever. Also, there are two gravel producing creek beds. I drive the Chevy into the beds (they're spring fed, and when it's not raining the water is just a trickle. I get gravel for my driveway from there. Drive the Chevy down there and load her up with gravel (or firewood if I'm going up the hill). So, my Chevy is a working girl. I wouldn't have it any other way. After I kick the bucket, if my kids want to restore her to a museum piece as a shrine to my memory, I don't care. But now, she's mine and I work with her.

Something odd happened a weekend ago and I didn't have time to work on it until this weekend. I thought the block was cracked, but luckily it wasn't. That expansion plug (freeze plug) in the block below the water pump came out. There was anti-freeze in the radiator so I know I didn't forget to put antifreeze in her. I know the water pump works fine because it made water spew out the freeze plug hole.

I went to Advance Auto Parts in Tahlequah to get another freeze plug. Nope, they don't have 'em. I called around to other places. This was my experience in South Dakota as well. The auto parts franchises (McAuto Parts) employ kids who don't know squat. So, I tried to re-use the freeze plug that came out (it fell into that frame cross-bar so I didn't lose it.

It was fine for a while but after the engine warmed up it started leaking. Just drops not gushing like before. I may try some gasket sealant while I order a new plug from the internet. When the freeze plug first came out, I was shoveling gravel into the dump-bed and wasn't aware of the problem until I smelled the oil vapor. So the engine got very hot. Now the temperature guage jumps to 212 immediately after I start the engine. So, that thing is toast. But she runs fine. Thankfully.

I don't know how why the freeze plug came out. But it did, and I'm grateful the block isn't cracked. Had the block been cracked, I was planning to fix it with J-B Weld.

Lee

Lee Prairie,
Since you are over there in Cherokee territory I would like to tell you that there is a very good VCCA member that lives In Tahlequah He is a banker and has a large collection of Restored Chevrolets and a large shop. I believe that he is a member of the Heart of 66 Region. Maybe Sam Hamilton or another one of the Heart of 66 members (they are all good people) will post the man's name, I just had a senior moment and can't remember......squat.
I betcha that they would like to recruit you in VCCA and into The Heart of 66 Region, I can remember to say that!

Lee,
Take the loose one to any local engine rebuilder so he can match the size and he'll probably sell you one for a buck or two.

That is odd. The place that rebuilt the block must have used a "cheap" plug. Its just a standard 2 inch, non cup type . Even a local hardware store may have one in the assortment.

I went into Advance Auto Parts once myself. If it isn't a plastic car or the parts are measured in MMs or Mililiters forget gettig any thing for a car older than the kid at the register, they are getting younger every time I see them at McDonalds! I seem to gravitate to a parts store with the name of the town and auto parts in their name, I do know a couple of old geezers that have bought NAPA stores, sometimes they even go to the store!

The one that came out is a 'cup' type. Concave, 2" diameter and you make it tight by hitting it in the middle after you get it seated in the hole.

The engine block has been modified, as it has 235 pistons in a 216 block. Why would someone do that .... you gain ONE horsepower. It's not worth the effort. But, when I got it, the oil consumption was excessive, so I overhauled it (rings, valves), but the block has been significantly modified.

So, that expansion / freeze plug is evidently not original. It certainly isn't if the originals were flat. But the corrsion on the inside indicates it had been there quite a while. Thanks to all for comments.

Lee

The plug the factory used was slightly cup shaped and when pounded in place would expand. The edge was not flanged but just plain. Not like the block side frreeze plugs that have a deep flange (deep cup) Thats what I meant. Its a common plug but if the opening is rusted to a larger size you may have a problem.
Boring the block from the original 3 1/2" to 3 9/19" probably was done because it needed boring and the 235 pistons were more readily available + they wanted a bit of power gain. You now have a 226 engine. Pontiac used this 226 (bored out Chev engine) in Canada in the late '30's.
The 1949 216 engine had 90 HP at 3300 RPM and 174 ft. pounds of torque at 1200 to 2000 RPM.
The 235 engine had 93 HP at a lower 3100 RPM and 192 Foot pounds of torque at a low 1000 to 1900 Rpm.
Then increase of torque at a lower RPM was desireable for a truck engine.
Over reving a truck engine for long periods of time was a no-no and the engines was designed to have good power in the low to mid speed ranges (like 2000 to 2800 RPM on the road)
The 1941-1949 235 was under carburetored as it used the 216 head, valves intake and exhaust manifolds and the smaller 216 carburetor. The 1950 -52 235 engine got 105 HP and the mentioned things were increased in size and it produced 105 HP at 3600 RPM and 193 pounds of torque.I guess they figured the thin babbit bearings could withstand the higher RPM's better.

Chevrolet said that in a trip of 50 miles with 20 miles climbing grades from 2% to 6% The trip time with a 1949 235 engine would take 1 hour and 23 minutes and with the 1950 235 would take 1 hour and 13 minutes. Also in proving ground tests the 1950 truck accelerates 27% faster than a 1949 truck....now think how much slower a 216 would be.

Thought that was intresting

I had an occasion to replace two leaking freeze plugs that were located in an area that simply couldn't be accessed without a lot of disassembly. I found an older parts house that had a line of freeze plugs under the "Dorman" brand that were expanders. They are not the rubber centered style that just squeeze out, although they may work OK. These are two-piece metal plugs that expand with a center bolt and make a perfect seal. I cleaned the seat area, applied a bead of Permatex gasket maker, inserted the unit, and tightened it down. Never had another problem. Again, they are "Dorman" brand, labled "Replace-it" line, sort of the older of the "Help" lines you find in the parts houses today. It took some time on the phone to find someone that had them but well worth the effort. I have a couple left, but they are 1 3/4 inch.

Lee.

May be wrong, but sounds like you may have air lock in system.

My VAC Case does the same thing with heat jumping way up after starting - after anti-freeze has been drained out of system. Only tractor I have owned that does this. Had to start eng with little to no anti-freeze in it and than slowly pour in anti-freeze until full watching heat guage. Cured my problem.

Just a thought.

Jim.

Thank you all for your posts. ChevGene, I've wondered if the people who bored my engine block changed the crankshaft as well. The stroke of the 216 is 3 & 3/4 inches and that of the 235 is 3 and 15/16 inches. I didn't measure the stroke, but the pistons come pretty close to the top of the cylinder block at TDC.

Jim, I will pull the temp. guage sender and see if the coolant level is at the top of the head. You may be right, but I'll bet the sender is toast.

Lee

Lee is there a chance that the engine has always been a Babbit rod 235 truck engine?

I've always installed the freeze plugs with out a shoulder on them by this procedure. Clean the hole and make sure its good and dry. Then a light coat of brown Permatex on the opening in the block. Then I use a socket slightly smaller than the freeze plug I gently tap on the socket to drive the freeze plug in. Once its in, I use a small punch and give the center of the plug a couple taps so seat the plug against the block.
Don

Thank you for your posts, and Merry Christmas! [Billy and I recently got back together after having been high school sweethearts in the '70s. (One of the reasons I came back home.) Since she was a child of 12 or 13 she always wanted a telescope. I got her a very nice one this Christmas. The weather isn't good enough yet to be viewing the night sky, but when it is, she'll be very impressed... lots of those points of light you see are galaxcies and not stars, but you can't see that until you look through a good telescope.]

Thank you, MrMack - the engine block serial number indicates that it is a 1950 216, at least according to the internet sources I've found. The rods have bearing shells and are not babbited (sp?). Other features of the engine block also indicate that it is a 1950 while the truck serial number is consistent with 1949. I have to accept the probable fact that the engine block is not original and has been modified. When I did the overhaul, I bought a set of 216 rings... which I still have because I intend to continue in the fancy. But the pistons are 235 pistons so I bought a second set of rings.

Don, I did basically the same thing you do with the exception that I didn't use any kind of sealant. I cleaned the hole very well, re-installed the old plug and used a piston wrist pin as a 'punch' to tap the edges of the plug to seat them. It's leaking a tiny bit, but it isn't serious. I may use some 'Mend-Tite' or something to keep it from weeping.

Many thanks again!

Lee

Thank you for your post, MrMack. I have started or tried to join VCCA a number of times. I've printed the membership form.... then one has to fill it out by hand and mail it in.

One of the things I am doing for the US District Court in Muskogee (I'm employed as a computer guy there) is convert all their forms to forms that you can fill out online. I'm using Adobe for that. I would be more than happy to make a form for us here that can be downloaded, filled out on the computer and emailed back to VCCA - would y'all be interested?

Many thanks!

Lee

Lee, I am sure that the "powers that be" are working on something like that. Maybe the webmaster will chime in and let us know , I think that new things are in the offing soon. As for joining VCCA and a region. Maybe Sam Hamilton can fix you up with a single pay and join situation to Join The Heart of 66 Region and VCCA at the same time. That bunch of Chevrolet lovers at "Heart of 66" are a good bunch to be with. :vcca:

"One of the things I am doing for the US District Court in Muskogee (I'm employed as a computer guy there) is convert all their forms to forms that you can fill out online".

Just wondering here, Lee. I recall when you were in South Dakota, I believe, you were a Ph.D Chemist.

How the heck did you switch to "a computer guy" as a way to earn a buck?

Hey,
Don't degrade us Chemists we have other skills beside messing with beakers and flasks while wearing a white lab coat. Some of us are even human and understand mechanical things too. Besides those computers work because of those tiny electron thingys just like a bunch of chemical reactions. In both cases you have to make them do what you want and not run wild.

Asking a guy about changing his vocation is not, to me, degrading. capice?

Yes, Bob, (and thank you, Chipper) - my Ph.D. is in computational/theoretical chemistry. My full hame is "Harrell Lee Sellers" (my family and friends growing up call me 'Lee' because my father's name is "Harrell". Uncle Sam changed my name from Lee to Harrell in 1969. If you google my name, "Harrell Sellers" you will see a lot of stuff that I have done in my career. All of it is computational. And much of it is internet accessible. I was head of the Computational Biology and Chemistry Group at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois (1986-1992), then professor of chemistry at South Dakota State, et cetera.

I was a software engineer for IBM (2003-2009 on leave from SDSU 2003-2006)) and when I got downsized at IBM, I decided that was a great time to come back home... (I started the carbon sequestration program at IBM, I made the 100% club at IBM just a scant 6 mo. before I got laid-off.... don't be lulled to sleep by industry awards... it's all about money... and nothing else.) I am single again and have wanted to go home for a long time. Surely, the Corvair would be cheaper for me to drive to Muskogee (from Proctor, OK - 80 mile round trip commute) than my Ford F150 - 15 mpg).

There is very little rust on that Corvair. The paint is original.... I would also like another Chevy truck project - a '49 to '53 or so half ton. I kept my '49 4400 as original as possible, but my next project, if it is a half ton, I am willing to do what I have to in order to get better gas mileage. I would be willing to change the engine, rear end, install electronic ignition (I put electronic ignition in some of my tractors that I had to depend on in South Dakota like my snow moving rig). I'm agonizing over the Corvair. I paid more for most of my tractors than $2500. But the restoration would cost me as well..... The last 1951 Chevy half ton I looked at, the guy wanted more than the asking price of the Corvair because they Chevy trucks have become popular. I know where there is another Chevy 4400.... I'm thinking about the unthinkable.... making it into a pickup because I like the look of the bigger front. Needs more horsepower, either different tranny or two-speed rear end, and a new, shorter bed....

Many thanks,

Lee

Lee,

I recalled the Chemistry background ( lucky I can recall anything, any longer ) .... but, when I saw "computer guy" I wondered what the heck did this guy do ?? I had no way of knowing your specific discipline, so thanks for your reply.

Regardin your tractor comment, I fell for and purchsed, several years ago .... a 1951 Ford 8N Tractor, with low hours. It was not Sherman equipped, but a fine machine, just the same.

It whispered within the 5 acre yard it manicured, ( I used a 6' finishing mower deck on the PTO )was a joy to operate .... a great time to meditate and enjoy the efforts and accomplishments of Henry Ford and the gang.

I'm way O.T. here, but wanted to respond.

Bob

Bob,
It's a little surprizing to find someone on a chevy post refering to a ford tractor. While I have had old Chevy's for years I have a love for the 8N ford tractors. I have about 10-12 of them including a 52 with the sherman and a nice looking Ford flathead V8- 60HP in it. It's a hit at the local tractor shows too. Donn

I still have a coolant leak some place. I see the tell-tale green liquid on the side of the engine block and was wondering if there are other 'freeze' plugs on the engine. ChevGene, I am also an Allis-Chalmers Enthusiast (ACE). My first Allis restoration was a '38 Model B. I collected for years to get all the parts that are correct for the serial number on the torque tube. That Model B has 4 freeze plugs on the side of the engine block, which I replace when I did the teardown and rebuild. What about the Chevy 216? Are there freeze plugs on the side of the engine block? I tried to find a picture of the engine block that would show that, but the online manual has no such picture and in fact, I don't believe it mentions freeze plugs at all.

Lee

The frost plugs are on the drivers side of the engine. I had a coolant leak between the water pump and the engine block one time and the coolant ran back and down between the cylinder head and block before leaking down the side of the block. I've used the edge of a good paper towel to look for the exact point of a coolant leak with good results. Just a couple ideas.
Don

As far as the airlock problem goes I had the same thing going on with my 50 216. I did some research online and found a solution used by some truck mecahanic back in the day. Just drill a 1/8 hole in the flange of the thermostat and this will allow any air in the system to pass through to the radiator when the engine is shutdown. just my $.02 worth....
good luck, Bill

Many thanks for all the posts. Some good ideas there.

The frost plug that failed was the one just below the water pump. I don't believe it is still leaking much if at all. But all I can do is look with a drop light, et cetera. The leak I can still see <i>is</i> on the driver's side of the engine block. I really can't tell by looking where it originates. But just above the oil pan on the driver's side of the block is a land where the coolant comes to and flows back toward the rear and drips off. It's not a lot, but it bothers me.

Many thanks!

Lee