VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions What's next?

One factor that none of you are considering is the cost to Chrysler or GM to service a dealer. It takes more accounting, service, sales, warranty, etc. people to deal with the dealers that are being eliminated. These costs must be weighed against the probable additional sales to determine if the cost is justified.

The fewer number of dealers will also help the remaining dealer to be profitable.
I think fewer dealers is a good move from a business standpoint.

As I understand from a current Chevrolet dealer the criteria used to decide which dealers would not be supported was multifaceted. One was the monthly new car sale volume. Another was customer satisfaction rating. There were several more. Keeping the best dealers and the ones that would be positive contributions to future business was the logical business strategy. Without profit there is no long term future for a business. Chrysler and GM just proved that. Even not-for-profit organizations (like the VCCA) need funds equaling or exceeding their expenses to remain viable.

A friend of mine who is a GMC dealer and fellow VCCA member, said that the closing of the other GMC dealerships in the area allowed him to hire their best technicians, thus laying off some of his not so good technicians. These purges were needed. He felt from a business standpoint it will work out in the long run, also now there will be less competition, so the surviving ones will not have to be as negotiable.
The automobile is the only product that I know of that everyone knows the actual price and mark-up. Nobody knows how much the TV set cost to manufacture or the profit mark-up. The dealers brought this upon themselves.
Have a good weekend
John

From a stand point of the consumer, autos are to expensive. What I hear from the costumers at the shop is that cars should be made less expensive. Like in the old days the difference between a "cheapy" and top of the line was basically Chrome and more appointments and only a few platforms to chose from.

I am well aware that the technology of todays autos can not even be compared to the old ones, but tech. always gets cheaper in time. My first computer,(an IBM stone age XT) coast I think about $1800., 1st Pent. machine (1995) $1700., Pent.4 /dvd, 1gig ram about $500.and a Dual Core Vi$ta laptop for school $429.

I have gathered that some of you guys work/worked at GM and know the coast of assembly, but I myself still can not see justification for the price of some of these cars.

My job involves cutting apart and reconstructing(sometimes from the ground up), wrecks of all makes and models and I have to say I am NOT very impressed with much of what I see. The more expensive, the worse it seems. Although technology like energy absorbing crush zones, anti lock brk.,SRS. and the electronic engineering are rather advanced, it has already been developed to the point that it is standard equipment. Cars should get a little cheaper in time, not more expensive.

$60,000. for a set of wheels??!

A price range of about $7,000. to maybe $25,000/$30,000.(and that is not impossible), would bring back the long gone days of "trade em in every 2 yrs". As some would be more inclined to buy new rather than maintain.

Resulting in a large increase in sales.

There are plenty of AMERICAN vehicles out there for under $30,000. If you look at the price of cars. In 1962 an Impala cost around $2,500 and the avarage income was around $5,000. Today the Impala is around $25,000 and the average income is around $50,000 so the percentages are there. I think cars today are much better! They do not rust out after three years, the engines go 250,000 miles with no problem. They are better on fuel, and much safer!
I trade them in every 4-5 years at the end of the loan. I do not want a problem, I like the warranty. They are not selling cars because people are loosing their jobs, or afraid of loosing it and they do not want to be strapped down with a payment. On the train I ride on every day there are at least three out of the six I sit with that are loosing their job at the end of the month. Maybe the economy is booming where you live and have not noticed that this is going on, and has been for the past year.
Summer is here, enjoy
John

Here, things are slow and getting worse! I grew up poor and know the value of every single dollar I have ever labored for! Living day to day is a fact of life! I Now live in a rural area and there is no public transportation. You need a car.


You can compare the #s and %s all you want, but that only ends up being the small picture. EVERYTHING else has doubled and in some cases tripled, leaving much much less cash to do anything with. There is no comparison.

As I stated before (even when times where good) our customers constantly complain about the high price of their cars and their car payments. To trade in a car every 4-5 yrs in todays economy at todays prices is (in my opinion) a luxury mostly affordable to the very well off. I don't know YOUR monetary status but mine is very very tight, as is for most folks around here. We simply can not afford that luxury!


For the price of autos, I did not necessarily mean to cut prices, but to make cars with a lower, much more affordable price $tag$.
Plus, I have already said that the tech. and safety features on new/old cars can not be compared but that prices should actually drop in time as in the case with all other technologys! What is so wrong about that?

Your the one who said this, not me. I just replied that the cost is all relative and that there are many cars that are not at this price.



If I did not know any better you are just doing this for the sake of the argument. There is a comparison you just will not look for it. While I will admit that the buying power of the dollar has diminshed it is all relative to the numbers I presented to you.


I agree that is why I pointed out there are many cars under $25,000. Again you are the one who said $60,000.


My oldest son bought a new 2008 Mustang GT for $28,000, my middle son bought a 2008 new Ponitac G-6 for $17,000, how much more affordable do you think things can be? They have pretty low payments, I co-signed the loans. The Pontiac is just over $200 a month and he only put down $3-4,000 on it

Everything is about the same percentage price vs wage (although you said this mean nothing) and they are offering many more features in todays vehicles. Have you lowered your price, while increasing service? I know I have not, so why should the auto makers. They are not turning a profit now so how do you expect them to lower the price any more? There are plenty of 0.0% loans to help make the car affordable. Again I can't help to think it is about the argument
Enjoy the rest of the weekend
John

My point being, prices should START around $7,000. and TOP OUT at around $25,000./$30,000. Not 60,000. What could possibly make any car(other than a classic antique) worth $60,000 or more. That is all I meant.


Yes I do make less! Every time I am "tasked" to save a total. It is a"contract price" meaning, fixed price, as is, NO supplements. But hay...what ever it takes, as this may be all the work you have.

Maybe your income has kept pace with "Everything is about the same percentage price vs wage" deal, But I see it much, much differently.


Just out of curiosity,(without any influence or embellishment) ask someone this simple question. "What do you think about the price of todays autos?" Then let them answer. I don't have to ask I hear it all the time.

I haven't had a bad weekend since they were invented.

I'll jump in again. Agree with John. One needs to factor in wages v/s prices. Cars today, if you don't need all the bells and whistles, are much cheaper than they used to be. A good bargin.
In 1967, I was earning about 1.82 per hour and a new MB 200D had a list price of a tick over 5100.00. I know, I bought one.
Just before I retired in 2000, was earning approx 10 times that orig 1.82. Now that same MB 200D would be at that same rate about 51,000.00. The only option the MB had was an AM-FM radio and a/c.
In 2006, purchased a new Ford 500 Limited with every bell and whistle available and the list was a tick over 30,000.00.
I don't give list price for any vehicle I buy.
If people want to give 60,000.00 for a vechicle, than good for them. I don,t and won,t because it't not necessary.
I agree with John that there are a ton of cars that can be purchased in the 15000-20000 range. Just depends on what you want.

Buy American and Love it!!

Jim.

All I have left to say is that this thread has reached the point that it is just an argument, with several points of view, depending on your perspective and circumstances. Let's say ok we have stated our perspective and now we should move on to more pleasant things. Why don't we see what fun we can have with our old Chevrolets even in these difficult times for many of us....or go mow the grass, that is what I need to do since we have received all of this welcome rain.......

Findoctr,
What was, and when was the last new car you purchased? I think that would put this all in perspective for me.

To answer your question my wages as a UNION electricain have been keeping somewhat with the cost of living, I know am blessed for this.

I am sure you will have some sort of argument for the above question.

Weekend is over and the weather broke at the end of the day, just in time for Monday
John

Only one new car! A Honda Crv. We searched high and low for an affordable, small 4x4 with the best possible mpg as my wife travels a good distance to work. Where we live now you need 4 wheel drive to get out in winter. We looked at chevy first, and sad to say, found nothing in our price range that satisfied our needs. That is what I am angry about. But Honda was clearing out the old modls. and supposedly was giving us (what seemed to be) a very good deal. On paper! It wound up coasting a good bit more than we thought.

Payments where very high, but only for 3yrs at low interest.
I generally always look for and find a good used car but with the economy like this completion if fierce. It was OUCH all the way.

Here our Governor,(God Bless Him #@*%$) passed a law making it nearly impossible to fix or buy a wreck. With the change in % of damage/value, cars that are repairable are now totaled. If you are in the middle of a repair an exceed the allowed estimated coast, repair is stopped, and the vehicle is scraped! Insurance Comps. won't take that risk. Leaving less cars to fix and customers screaming.

This BRAIN STORM of an idea was to promote new car sales, but it has had an enormously negative effect on every one. Come on 2010 elections!!!!!

Do you want to be a part of the problem? or part of the solution?

BE A PART OF THE SOLUTION and also.....

Honor our WWII VETS!

BUY AND DRIVE AMERICAN !
By the way I consider Canada, The USA and Mexico to be American......So does the US Dept. of Naturalization & Immigration.

I grew up a GM man. And i have owned many over the years. But one day someone dangled a Bimmer under my nose and it was right when i was fed up fixing GM cars. I drove that 318 for over 10 years and at 375000 Km, I had to let her die, not because it was too expensive to drive, but the wait for parts on a daily driver was too long. The point is, sometime about 15 or so years ago, NA car manufacturers decided to reduce the quality of the parts in order to compete. Why is it a wheel bearing on a GM car only lasts 30,000 Km, but on a German car they last 150,000 Km (example, don't pick this apart). The reason is they have squeezed the parts suppliers so much, the only thing to give is longevity. And they have done that for all the greedy reasons listed above. There are many NA cars I would love to own, but I know that when the shine wears off, I will be repairing it way more than I care to. Extending the warranty to cover the cost of ownership is not the solution. who wants to be in the dealer repair bay every week. It is unfortunate that when people think of quality, they thing of fit and finish off the assembly line and day one gremlins, and not longevity. So big deal, Ford got higher marks for 'quality' than GM at some point. Their parts are no better and fail just the same. Too bad they were not rated on that.

You have to change the mentality and business model. So until things really change the only GM in my stable will be the '28. It is too bad that it will take the next 10 years of a good behaviour and a proven track record before i can trust them again.

Here I go again.
After some years as grease monkey/mechanic, service advisor, ticket writer, svc mgr, and mgr of foreign cars including MB, Jag, all things BMC, VW, Porsche, Audi, Subaru, Saab, Volvo, it didn't take too long for me to say than and I still say today, "For the American driver on the American roads, you just can,t beat the American cars". I have no problems with them and I get mega miles from them trouble free with no major work done sans 1 tranny rebuild among the many cars in my family.

I buy American and love it!!

Jim.

shawng - I put 150K on my 1994 3/4T Cheyenne and only replaced one battery and 2 windshields. My 1999 Tahoe has 223K and the trany was replaced under warrantee 150K ago and replaced the water pump only. I have yet to do the second tune up. It just doesn't seem to need it. Never had to deal with any wheel bearings.

Roger

I can only tell you what my family and friends experience. Perhaps it is the harsh salt filled winter we have in Ottawa, who knows. It is good to hear you guys are getting better results. In the end I truly hope the American car industry flourishes once again as we all benefit.

Cars can have an uncanny resemblance in nature to humans. I have an old 94 caravan 2.5 lt that has over 250,000. on it and was the best running vehicle we had. Running on a daily basis it was fine,but when parked and kept as a spare back up it literally disintegrated! Same is true for my 84 suburban.
When kept active, longevity will prevail in any situation. Use it or loose it.

I think we finally have something we can agree on! I have a a 93 Sierra 1500 and it had 325,000 miles. The only thing (major) I had to replace was the rearend at 190,000 even the tranny is the original, I has been sitting for about 6 months and everything is starting to let go. I swear the onlt reason that thing lasted so well was the routine maintinance and the fact it was used every day.

My tow vehicles now rarely ever gets used. I had a list of people waiting for me to sell (trade in) my 2004 Sierra, it had only 45,000 miles. I just took delivery of my 09 Sierra and I already have had two friends asking to have first shot at it when this one goes in for trade. At $3.00+ a gallon for high test and 13 miles mpg it only leaves the driveway when the trailer is on the back.
Hope this week is good
John

Another plant closing in Dayton announced this week. That only leaves one and it is on a temporary shut down and when it reopens it will not be full production.