VCCA Home Forums GENERAL DISCUSSION General Discussions What's next?

I think that it isn't just management of auto companies and the unions that have a greedy attitude. look at local governments. and the local citizens. Everyone wants more than they can afford. The local governments out here are always strapped for money, local programs and projects look for every way to pay for larger grander material things. The most valuable beaurocrat here in the small towns and the county is the "Grant writers" "We found a grant that will build us a whatever or pay for a new police dog, elaborate fire truck with chrome wheels widgets here and there, a super dupper sewer treatment plant"
After all it is government money and it won't cost us but 10 percent matching funds, there may be a way of us fudgeing a bit and getting this project for free! We may as well have it as someone else." Maybe it would be better if no one took the doles out money, Maybe we should learn to live on what we produce rather than having trillions of dollars of debt. We are selling our soals to the devil (China).

Hey folks, there isn't anything free! Take from Paul to pay Peter or visa versa.

Quote: "unemployment and retirement benefits" were outrageous and unsustainable,but also added "We will take advantage for as long as we can because we know it wont last forever".

When I went to work for GM in 1957 the only unemployment benefits available to laid off workers were from the
state. At that point and time GM was known for their yearly layoffs. Depending on the economy those layoffs could start as early as January. AT $28.00 a week it was hard to buy groceries let alone pay house rent and other bills,so most people got part time jobs or moved on to other jobs. In my area a GM employee was considered a credit risk because of these layoffs.
In the early sixtys the first sub plan was negotated.This was good for the employee and GM.The employee could survive for a few months and GM could still have an experienced work force.In the mid sixtys the "humanization" plan was introduced. This was brought about by new laws enacted by the US Goverment Quota system who told companys who they could and could not hire and fire both male and female.(I will probably be called a racist after that last statement) AT that point quality and absenteeism became a problem.The Union has to represent all employees, good and bad.Ths sub program was and still is a good program.The job bank is a different program. This program was negotated when GM started closing plants. This also accelerated the "buy out" program. I have never understood why GM agreed to this program.
I won't touch on the overpaid executives who are most responsible for GM's down fall.
That is well documented.
I have been in meetings in DETROIT where people had no idea how to build an automobile in the assembley plant. NEXT CHAPTER

How many dealerships have you lost? In our area we have had two to date that have announced that they are being shut down. One Cadillac and one Chrysler dealer. Both of these dealerships have been in business for many years. The Chrysler dealer was planning an expansion. I don't understand how closing a dealership will save money for the company. Can you help me understand this?

dandyd, That was 50 yrs ago. What where the workers collecting in unemployment in the past 10 yrs? I understand it was almost their full wages.

Findoctor,
Again you are wrong in your understanding, it is an insurance policy that they collected from, no different than a medical plan that is bought and paid for by the wages in the negotiated package, it could have been in the envelope, but it was not. Employers like this type of benifit because they do not have to part with the money every week like a earned wage. It allows them to "play" with the money before they have to pay the policy, see where the problem is.... management played with the money and lost it! I do not know where you "hear" this stuff, but please check your facts. I really do not think you understand the situation with some of your comments. The Government loaned GM money, no different than a bank making a loan, but yet you want to believe the Government owns GM, does the bank own a business when a loan is made?
Have a great day
John

John 348/340HP, The quote you referred to "(Whats to stop the Gov. from imposing a NON COMPLIANCE fee for anyone who drives a NON GOV. vehicle? Forcing you to buy their product! Quite possibly being the only way for them to sell their cars)" was tong and cheek but you have to look at what is being considered by our Gov. now and in the future. GPS in all new cars? If the Gov. decides to build only electric and hybrid autos and feel YOU should drive it, they may charge(on the car you are driving)1-higher reg. fees, 2-tax on non hybrid/elec auto, 3-age fee (older the car,higher the fee). I believe they do have something like this Overseas. Plan is to get you to by a new car when the Gov. decides you should!

They came from retired GM employees. And is not how they explained it to me. I don't work for GM so no I don't know any of this to be true for sure, as I am told this in conversations by the ones who have worked for them, but some yrs ago. If what you say is true either they were just bashing their former employer or some changes have taken place since then. In any case, they don't seem to worried about it even now.?

I'm 57 and I don't know when or even if I can retire!

John, I just heard on TV in a congressional hearing that the government owns 60% of General Motors.

Back Roads,

I'm in the NYC Metro area and there were tons of dealerships all around me. Over the last month or so at least a third of them have closed or are planning to close. allmost all of the Pontiac dealers are gone, except the ones that carry other brands.

The Chrysler Dealers are still trying to sell off what's left but most look like ghost town buildings.

Most small town Chevy Dealers have closed the doors and the only ones doing business are the big highway locations and one or two very high volume dealers that have bought up smaller dealers inventory.

To give you a count for my area is hard, but I'd say about one third are gone. Some dealers are hanging on because they carried an import.

Sad to think of all those talented mechanics and clerical workers along with salesmen and the business owners being all out of work. A lot of those businesses were started by the grandparents of the current owners. Our local paper runs articles ever other day about an owner closing after 50 or 65 years!

BUY AMERICAN!!!! If you can find something made in America!

Jim,
The Government would then own 60% of the stock........ I did not hear that. I think someone in an effort to simplify things condensed the facts. I have been following this very closely and never read anything that they were a 60% owner.
We lost a few dealers on this side of the city, but much of that is due to poor business. I just bought an 09 Sierra last week and that dealer who also happens to be my friend and fellow VCCA member who shed a lot of light on the subject. He was not concerned about his future. I did see a huge Chevrolet Dealership close last week, they were a GM owned dealership, so I think they will be closing many of those company owned stores.
John

Nothing for nothing, but........ who's fault is that. IRA's were around for at least the past 25 years. No need to be mad at others because they have.
Have a good day
John

I also heard on the news that the government owns 60% of General Motors. Not saying it is true, but that is what the national news on several networks did report.

Also, I read a news article this afternoon that in the year 2008, in the United States, 881 retail automobile dealerships closed, which is an all-time record.

The forth largest dealership in the world has its main headquarters locally and it has not closed any dealerships in this area even though several of their dealerships are Chrysler and Dodge. In fact, what I was told several weeks ago by one of the higher-ups in the company who is a friend of mine, is that the dealership made a trade in which it lost three Chrysler dealerships but gained five more dealerships...for a net gain of two dealerships.

None of the other dealerships within the county have closed at this point either and there has been no talk of any of them closing.

There are too many US make car dealers for any of them to stay alive. In this area there are only four Toyota dealers and nine Chevrolet dealers. Same for Honda. Also small towns never had Toyota and Honda dealers.
A few years back GM made a push to combine Pontiac, Buick and GMC dealers. We lost some of each at that time. The dealer I call on has the three. Five years ago, when they sold Pontiacs only, they sold more Pontiacs alone than they sell the three combined today.
GM killed both Pontiac and Buick when the dropped the Grand Prix, Grand AM, Buick Century and Buick LaSaber names.

Findoctor. The govt does not own GM!! The govt has loaned GM the money (taxpayers) as a bank loans me money for my business. Bank does not own me or my business!! President Obama came on TV and flatly stated that the govt will not, I repeat will not be in any position to run GM or make any decisions as to GM. This is to be done by the newly appointed management of GM
and there will only be interference from govt in certain
decisions.
This is still a free market society and I cannot forsee at any time other than another world war where govt will be telling private citizens what, when, where, and how to buy any product.

This is a very interesting and thought provoking post gentlemen, keep it up. Am enjoying it.

Have a great day!! Jim.

Gene, I understand what you are saying but I do not understand why it is not the decision of the dealer if they can make it or not. I don't understand big daddy telling them they need to close.

Let me be more clear. What ever I had is nearly gone, and I am NOT alone. I am NOT blaming anyone I am just stating the fact that some pensions have been selectively guaranteed. Mine is not! Although certain retirements will be backed by our tax dollars.

My anger is not at those who still have a pension, but at those who should have but did not address the issue for yrs of abuse. I sat powerless and watched everything slowly shrink away to almost nothing.

I am not afraid of work and have worked 2 jobs when needed, and will continue to do so, but it is a dangerous situation when you have one who has lost what they worked and saved for and one who walks with the spoils.

Again I am NOT blaming any one party. Management, Unions, and Bureaucrats alike are responsible and for some reason NEVER get held accountable!

The WORK force (and I don't mean unions) are, have and will always be the ONLY THING that stands between total collapse and survival!

And it is every bit a take over NOT a loan! I want to see every bit of the $40. bil? or what ever it is now, payed back. But I will not live long enough to see it.

And every day is a great day !

That's interesting John, I didn't know there were GM owned dealerships. That may be why Preakness Chevy moved out so fast and Hawthorn Chevy now has most of it's inventory. Hawthorn ran an ad in yesterday's paper inviting all former Preakness customers. Hawthorn is still a local main street location but has a very huge volume. (Remember "Cousin Brucie" Marrow from CBS FM? He did their voice overs for years)

findoctr you are not alone. I have yet to retire and collect my public supported pension. (I'm 59) I hope the State of NJ doesn't mess with that! Pivately, all the interest I made in the past 8 yrs with my 404b and 401k is gone! I am currently just about even with what I personaly put into them and can only hope that they improve ever so slowely since I changed them to interest only accounts.

Todays news says some of the bigger banks are getting ready to pay back part of the TARP funding. I sure hope GM and Chrysler are able to do the same.

I read today that Fiat is very concerned that Chrysler customers will not buy the fiat products. They are hoping that the US will not remember the Fiat of the 70s and 80s when Americans thought Fiat ment "fix it again Tony". (that's a newspaper quote, not mine)
The paper also said that Chryler/dodge dealers will not receive any Fiat cars until early 2010!

I fear for these Dealers and the people that work for them.

JDV123:

I hope your response was tongue-in-cheek. If not, you are incorrect that after the bankruptcy the government will not own most of GM. As it now stands, after the bankruptcy, the current stockholders of GM will have stock of no value. GM stock has already been delisted from the NYSE and currently trades on the pink sheet market as GMGMQ.

As it now stands the US gov will own approx 60% of GM common stock which will probably go to 70% if they "loan" them more money. The UAW will receive 20% of Common stock and $6.5 billion in preferred stock. Even the Canadian government will receive some of the GM common stock. The bondholders and other debtors will receive the rest. Now this could all change as bondholders who are getting the shaft and will go to the courts to get their fair share of new GM stock.

GM is simply going to become a way to transfer taxpayer money to the UAW via the preferred stock to fund their medical and pension liabilities.

I would not put too much truck in Obama's words about not wanting to run the company as he and his administration are already running it. Ask Rick Wagner.

Dr David,

THANK YOU!!!!

findoctr

What I wrote above has goten plenty of media coverage. It is no secret. It may not happen as reported but the early reports on what would happen to Chy proved to be true.

What is unusual is that the bondholders and other debt holders had superior leins to those of the UAW, yet the UAW is getting a higher percentage-per-dollar invested of new stock.

As to the future, I cannot imagine any of the 10's of millions of GM stock and bondholders who are getting the shaft buyng GM cars. But, I may be wrong.

RGwiz,
It makes no sence, If the Gov. is so worried about high unemployment why then is it so important for a "speedy" closing of all these dealerships? Let them linger for as long as they can, making every last dollar that they can. For the sake of employment and the economy.

Dr David,
It is my absolute belief that this is all political.

The new Italian owners of Chrysler may not want to have all of these dealerships involved in their plans, and that probably was a condition of them buying the auto maker, reckon maybe?

It is not clear exactly what the reason for closure is but I'm pretty shure it may have to do with copyright and trademark infringement on the Chrysler name.

And I wouldn't call 20% Fiat share an ownership, But A 55% UNION share is absolutely an ownership!!!!

http://www.industrialinfo.com/showAbstract.jsp?newsitemID=147612

And I always have a great day,especially Friday!

Would this fall into the frivolous or the ridiculous category? You decide!

http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=3388