I am trying to make sure I have wired my horn relay correctly. The middle terminal wire (black) goes to the battery, the top wire (yellow red slash) to each of my horns, and the bottom wire (black with blue insulator) goes up the steering mast to the base of the steering wheel. The middle and bottom terminal are hot (6 or more volts of electricity), the top is not. When I push the horn button should the top terminal go hot? What could be wrong if it doesn't? Presently, I am getting no voltage to my 2 horns with or without the horn button pushed down. Should I attach the yellow wire to where the small black wire is attached?

Thanks, Mike
P.S. Since, I have had my car I have used a horn button attached under the dash. The button had a ground wire and a hot wire so worked fine. I think it would be really cool to get the horn button on the steering wheel to work right!!!

You are not getting "voltage" to the horns because the relay wire going to the steering column needs to be grounded to complete the circuit. The column wire is jst a ground and pressing the horn button completes the ground, closses the contact poins in the relay (you can hear them click, the circuit is then coplete and the horns get juice and blow.

The add on button wire sould not have been getting juice to either wire. The add-on buttonj ust completed the ground when pressed. The button was just a continuation of the ground wire when pressed.

Hi Gene,

Thanks for the help. So I should switch the top and bottom wires on the horn relay?

Thanks, Mike

Mike, IF it is wired the same as '47/'48 you are correct in the way you have it shown. Disconnect the bottom wire and use a jumper wire to a good ground to see if the horn works. If not, something else is wrong.

Mike
Take a look at the truck wiring diagram in your Shop Manual. It shows the correct wiring for the horn relay (the car diagram does not show the relay). As chevegene sez, the bottom terminal provides a ground to close the relay and provide power to horns. As a lot of us can attest, that stuff under the horn button can be "tetchy" to get adjusted. You may have to fiddle with it quite a bit.

I do not have a 1941 shop manual so went to the 1941 shop manual that is available on line. I see what Mike is refering to. The car wiring diagram is mis-labled and the truck wiring is shown.....and the truck diagram shows the car.
A truck would not have had a horn relay because it came with only one horn. Also the battery cable is shown going to the under floor location for the car.
I wonder how many times people were mis-informed by this error made back in 1941.
My 1942 Manual is correct.

Hi Russell,

I did as you suggested and ran the bottom wire directly to the ground on my battery. This did not activate the horns. I accidentally, touched the center and top terminals with my screw driver and got startled with a robust horn beep so I know nothing is wrong with my wiring from the relay to each horn. So I am assuming the relay is the problem? I also assume that two terminals on the relay should not be hot all the time (bottom and middle). Do you think I am correct? I also assume if the horn button is grounded correctly. When the button is pushed it allows current to flow through the top terminal out to each horn?

I am hoping one of the local part stores can provide me with a new relay.

Thanks Mike

Mike, I agree with all your assumptions.

A friend was over a few days ago, to help me trouble shoot my horn issues. I am happy to say I now have the horns working. It turned out my horn relay was fine as was the wiring to the relay, and my problem was related to grounding at the mast jacket.





In the horn diagram from the Chevy Old Car Manual Project the part is called a bearing (6.521).




Among my horn parts I found a washer that was or could be used to improve the surface contact between the metal surface of the mast bearing, and cup (2,819) shown in the Chevy Old Car Manual diagram. We were extra careful to clean this surface with some paint thinner to improve the contact.





After adjusting the cup and retainer (2.819) and tightening the retainer bolt the horn worked. We found that the best adjustment was when the horn cup/retainer traveled about 1/8th of an inch to contact the mast bearing. This distance can be increased according to your preference.





Looking carefully at my first picture you will see that the left rubber edge of the mast bearing has a slight buildup of excess rubber on its face. This was just enough to interfere with the horn not working if you pushed the cap on that edge. In an emergency, it is easy to forget that the horn only sounds at certain positions so a close check of the rubber is important. It was only after looking at my picture did I realize the problem (a picture is worth a thousand words). The rubber should be carefully examined so the excess is removed.

Of special note is the lack of a rubber gasket in the horn button diagram from the Chevy Old Car Manual Project. This gasket slips over the three long prongs of the retainer (2.819).



I do not know if this was added to keep the retainer from bumping into the steering wheel. It does provide some cosmetic appeal and could reduce paint chipping.



Both the steering retainers that I have came with the rubber bumpers although the style was different. They were just small rubber washers covering the prongs. The washers slide over the end of the prongs and rest next to the base of the retainer.



Springs play an important part in the function of the horn. The first picture shows the spring under the horn cap. It is stiff and must align inside the 3 tabs that are closest to the center of the cup. If the spring isn’t centered then the horn will not sound consistently when pushed. An example would be pushing the right side of the horn and the horn not sounding while pushing the top, bottom or left it does.



The next spring is much less robust and has a wider base than its top. The wide base fits in the horn cup (2.819) and the top of the spring [rests against the bottom of the steering wheel.



Following are links to Chevs of the 40’s for parts, and the Chevy Old Car Manual Project for diagrams of the Special Deluxe ring style horn and the Master Deluxe cap horn.

Steering Column Bearing Mast Jacket

Horn Drawing from Chevy Old Car Manual Project

Good Luck, Mike

Mike, glad you got your horn working. But, I do not understand why the horn did not sound when you use the jumper wire to a good ground? After all, that is what the horn button does.

Oh well, one more check on the check list. Keep it up.

Hi Russ,

The rest of the story is that I ordered a new relay from NAPA and installed it. But the horn still didn't work. So we took everything apart at the steering wheel, cleaned the mast contact area, put everything back together, adjusted the cup and retainer, and still it didn't work. We took things apart again and installed the washer, played with the cup and retainer, and the horn worked.

At this point we thought the problem was at the end of the mast so decided to reinstall the old relay, but not before taking it apart and sanding the points. We then hooked up a 6 volt battery charger to the old relay and tested the voltage coming from the horn connection (connection for the horns) and it showed it was now at 6 volts. We removed the new relay and installed the old one and everything worked well except when I pushed on the left side of he horn cap. So today I will take off the steering wheel, remove the rubber on the mast bearing surface, and lubricate the bearing.

I am assuming that the horn will now work as designed.

Wish me luck, Mike

All is well. I sanded off the excess rubber on the mast bearing, eliminated the washer, and readjusted the cup. The movement of the horn button cap is now closer to 1/4 of an inch. Pushing in any area of the horn cap now activates my horns.

Before I took anything a part I rechecked the voltage readings on the relay and indeed the bottom two relay terminals are hot. Each reading 6.03 volts. Below is the relay I bought from NAPA with the electrical diagram shown on it. I will let you with electrical experience digest what it means but I stand by my original posting. The wire to the mast is hot and is grounded only after the horn cap button is pushed in. This then activates the top terminal on the relay which sends current to the horns.

Thanks, Mike

Mike
The relay pictured is connected with pin 1 to the horn, pin 3 to battery and pin 5 to the horn button (or other momentary contact switch).
Tony

I too am trying to understand the difference in grounding. I have a set of Town and country horns on the work bench being cleaned, tested etc.. The only sound they make is a faint rattle-like clicking.

Just so I get this straight--on the top terminal, of mikes pic, go to the horns? the center terminal, to the Bat? the bottom terminal to the horn button?? Then run a ground wire from the bottom term. to a ground?? Thank's,
___________________
Joe's37

That is correct. No extra ground wire. The bottom wire that goes up the steering column is soldered to the bearing. To make the horns sound, press the horn button/ring to make contact with the bearing to complete the circuit. Just make sure the button/ring has a clean contact with the column (no paint).

I don't think you have established a good ground. Horns are typically grounded with tightly installed bolts attached with lock washers to an inner fender, bracket attached to radiator support, etc. Getting a rattle-like clicking sound is a good sign. It means you are either low on voltage or have a grounding problem. Make sure paint on your parts is not insulating contact areas.

Good luck, Mike

Ok thanks. I'll double check the ground.

The terminals are generally marked on the fibre sheet near the terminal, the position of Mike's pic I cannot see which terminal is what and not all manufacturers used the same locations.
The terminal 5 goes to the horn button which is the switch.
Tony

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the continued help. Here are some more pictures to continue the clarification of horn issues.






Thanks, Mike

Mike
Got the T&C horns working. Ground contacts were polished clean, laid the assembly on the truck frame, hooked up the battery including ground cable to tranny, ran wires from horn relay lugs to battery and like magic all worked. Next up, paint prep and paint.
Thanks again!

(footnote: this is a step in the long process of restoring a '46 Chevy 1/2 ton. Currently the frame is bare, except for engine, tranny, rad, etc. all with completed rebuild; body work is in progress with expectation, by the body shop, the cab will be done in the next week or so. All that remains from them then is work on front fenders and hood.)

Great to hear things worked out with your horns. I am about a year ahead of you on my frame off restoration. Just finishing up on the interior. Hope to be driving the car in April.

Good luck, Mike

Mike
using the top pic left to right connect horn, battery in middle and button on right, or bottom pic top to bottom horn, battery, button.
When battery is connected the middle (3)and bottom (5) will have power and the top (1) will have power only when the bottom (5) is grounded.
Tony

Hi Tony,

Thanks for clearly confirming what I have ASSUMED.

Best wishes, Mike

Mike and 37 Blue,

IS there an effective/possible way to bench test the town & country horns? I'm working on a set right now in my shop. I have them wired as outlined above. I have connected the power lead (BAT) to the positive post of a good 6 volt battery, with a jumper wire from the other contact which, when I touch to the negative post of the battery, I get a distinct "click" from each horn. I realize, as you have indicated in a previous post, that I'm probably lacking a sufficient ground--is there a way to remedy that in order to test without physically attaching the unit to a ground on a vehicle? A couple years ago, I was able to get some good "honks" out of these horns by using the technique described above. The horns have sat in my shop now or a couple years, and now I can't get them to sound beyond these "clicks."

Thanks for any suggestions.

Jim

The clicking indicates the relay is working.Use a jumper cable, clamping it to the horn and a good ground.

If the "click" is coming from the horn you could try moving the adjuster on the horn itself. I think you said you had them apart so adjustment could well be out.
Adjust the screw a small amount (less than 1/4 turn at a time) the flash accross battery and adjust again. You could leave connected to battery but the whole neighborhood will be there with their baseball bats if your wife hasnt already.
Tony

Dear Gene and Tony,

I thank you both--I needed to follow both of your recommendations. When I attached the jumper cables to ground, I still got only clicks. I then disconnected everything from the relay and attached a jumper wire to one horn only--it needed adjustment, as Tony indicated. After adjusting, I got a loud and clear "beep." I did the same with the second horn. I then reattached everything to the relay and I now get a nice blast from each horn in beautiful harmony--and Tony, I did all this when my wife was out of the house!

Thanks again,

Jim

Jim
Good to hear they now work.
You were wise to do it while the wife was not within hearing distance.
Tony

Jim
Sorry for not responding sooner, just today saw your question. Looks like you got others to help out. Glad it worked out well.
37Blue