I'm having problems trying to register my 1938 Chevy Coupe, here in CA. According to the CHP the VIN (Body Number) does not match anything on record. The engine block number references a 1937 engine. They are asking from me to stream clean the under carriage and return for another inspection. Are there addtional numbers on the under carriage? Any assistance would be greatly appreaciated. Thank you for your time.

Do you have a title, BOS? What information is on those documents.

You should never go to a DMV unless you know more information than they do.

Give us all the information you have that is on the 38 and tell us what paperwork you have and we will attempt to assist.

Like Ray said, what number is showing on the title. Most likely the engine number since most states used the engine number at that time. There's no place on the frame "that I'm aware of" with a matching number. The only two numbers I've heard of being used for titling is the engine number and the unit serial number on the data plate on the passenger side of the cowl under the hood. If the number on your title is no where on the car you have issues to discuss with whoever sold you the car.

Thank you for your response.

Yes I do have the Bill of Sale. Along with the Title.

VIN #5HB0526962
Engine Block Stamped # I8b4023

Thanks again for all your help..

Arturo.....Like Tiny said... the engine number is in most cases used for the registration number...These cars DO NOT have a VIN.....Do not use the ENGINE CASTING Number.
The ENGINE NUMBER is located on a SMALL raised area on the engine block, on the left side of the distributor.
GOOD LUCK......ED

5HB0526962
Do you have this number on a tag on the body where indicated previously? This is the serial number that California should reconize as "the serial number" for this year Chevrolet. It breaks down to a Kansas built 1938 master built in May of 1938 & 26962 is the last part of the serial number. That entire number should be used for titling today. There are no numbers on the chassis.F**d did that...Joe

Here is some additional information:

The stamped number is I8(b or 6)4023
The raised number is GM 83871012
Style No. 38-1217
Body No. K5769

a 1938 Chevy Sport Coupe with a Rumble Seat
Master or Master Deluxe...unsure

First off, Refer to you vehicle serial number as a serial number and not the VIN. The VIN term didn't come along until the Federal Goverment mandated it sometime in the 60's.

Your 1938 Vehicle should have a serial plate affixed to the cowl right side outer verticle surface. Raise the hood panel right side to view this plate. Your serial number should look something like (Example)1HA09-XXXXX (Deluxe Passenger) or 1HB09-XXXXX (Master Passenger). First digit(s)preceeding the HA is the Assembly plant identifier (Oakland Ca was 6). HA-HB is the vehicle model. Next two digits are the month of assembly. (example 09 = September). The last digits XXXXX are the vehicle build sequence number.

Many states used the engine serial number to register a vehicle in the time period you are working with. If your engine is a 1937 unit as you suggest its serial number should fall somewhere between 1 (first unit assembled at Flint) and 1187821 (last 37 engine). If your engine is a 1938 as it should be, its serial number should fall within 1187822 (first 38 unit Flint) and 1915446 (last 38 unit Flint) unless it was assembled at the Tonawanda engine plant and then the number range was B-1 (first 38 unit assembled) and B-10502 (last 38 unit assembled).

Steam cleaning the vehicle under carriage in search of numbers will be a waste of time. There were none located any other place except for the Fisher Body Tag located on the front vertical surface of the cowl (firewall) which has no bearing on what you are attempting to solve.

I'm glad to see a "k" on the Fisher body tag. The "k" also indicates Kansas. It was the 5769th 38-1217 built in Kansas.
If the serial number tag is missing you may have another problem...Joe

The problem I'm running into is that there were two plates on the passenger firewall and now there one large plate on the bottom and the top one is missing, however a new smaller plate is now there stating Body Number (VIN?) 5HB052962. Thanks again gentlemen. I do really appreciate All your help.

Print everything we've told you & go to motor vehicle.

This shows my coupe before rescue and restoration. You'll notice the two plates on the side of the cowl. The upper is the one you're missing. These are available as reproductions. A VCCA member sells them stamped with your number. He advertises in the club magazine. I also see them on ebay and I believe The Filling Station sells unstamped repops that you have to stamp yourself. I bought a repop and stamped it myself because my original had been painted over. The bottom pic shows a bit of my repop plate and the original hex/clutch head fastening screw.

Gentlemen...this is what the CHP is stating...

I must remind you that our records search revealed the VIN number on the vehicle is non-conforming to that vehicle. I understand that the State of Iowa has records dating back to 1976, however, their records appear to have the wrong VIN number. As I mentioned before, the "Body Number" plate on the firewall appears to be a replacement tag and not the original. As requested please steam clean the under carriage of the vehicle and I could check a couple of confidential locations.

They can look all they want..there is no ID number on the frame or body other that the tag on the cowl. I've looked at my car for hours and have never seen any number of any kind. If you come up with this number PLEASE post that information.


If it were me...I'd go to another county and try the process all over again. It makes a difference in who you talk to about old car titles, go to a woman if you can. (don't tell my wife I said that)...grin

I'm guessing CHP doesn't like the new serial number plate. Looks too nice for a older car.
Where is your title from?
If you can get this resolved, make a copy of the old title before you give it to California..Joe

So is the engine no. I8b4023 or I864023 or 1864023 ? Thanks
Also the orignal serial number plate was replaced with smaller tag...which states BODY no. 5HB0526962

That is correct Joe. I really do love this car and dont want to lose it. Any and all help is really appreciated.

It's just an assumption on my part but I remember someone posting some time back that California was an engine number state and they may be saying in a round about way that the number on your title isn't the engine number. Buy a repop data plate, stamp the number you have on it, mount it in the appropriate spot and take it for inspection. As Steve said please post the "confidential" location where they find the number because I've never heard of their being a number hidden anywhere. For what it's worth I've heard of folks in CA having troubles in the past and taking their vehicles to a different location to get them inspected successfully.

Sorry Joe...The title is from IOWA...from what I was told a Mr. Cook from Council Bluffs owned the vehicle for some 40 odd years.

Hey , Arturo...The CHP's just dumber than #!*%...your engine number is your VIN # if it don't match there's been an engine "swap" and not taken care of at the DMV in the past...I feel your pain...I was down @ the DMV recently and they insist on seeing my '47 to check my #'s before issuing me "tags" because it's been 10 years since I last registered the jolopy...And I have my "GOOD TITLE" in hand ! I Think DMV is where you oughta be ! Tell'em the engine has been swapped ...obviously !!! Kevin

...Thought I'd read that the #'s also on the "top" of the tranny and the rear-end...good luck seeing that ! Head down to DMV for a chat...see what they've got to say....

...cool car by the way...

Hi Kevin

It was the DMV that started this whole mess. Their remarks colum stated. "Do Not Process - Refer to CHP; Plate that VIN is stamped on has been replaced". So now in order to register my vehicle I need CHP to sign off.

...Those guy's... I'll tell ya ...well you could go back to the CHP and inform them of the obvious engine swap...you know they are just so jealous of your '38 they just can't think f*%#ing straight ! Kevin

Anybody know a CHP that's a car guy. California may be a engine serial number title but because Arturo's car came from another state (Iowa), they use the car serial number....Joe

There ya go ! Thanks , Joe

Think it was "tiny" in a post above , that mentioned getting a repop tag and having the existing title # stamped on it...and screw it on to your cowl...can't find it @ the filling station...Ebay has them ( type in 38 chevy , first page , but it's an auction...) Come to think of it my buddy had trouble like this years ago...brought a '46 from Oregon..and CHP messed with him 'till he got a new tag...I'll ask him tommorrow...and give ya a yell...Kevin

UNLESS I HAVE BEEN ASLEEP YOU ARE YET TO TELL US WHAT NUMBER IS ON THE TITLE.

This is where we must start in order to accomplish your mission.

Arturo.
Thanks for the pictures. It looks like the original serial number plate is under the one that is added. What number is on you title? I guess we missed that part of your story....Joe

$21 bucks

This thread is a perfect example of what not to do.

Don't ever go to the DMV until you know the answer to every question that is subject to be ask.

Before you go to the DMV come here to Chevy Chat and ask all the questions you don't know the answer to. There are members on Chat that have faced about every problem you may encounter and can give you sound advice as to how to handle the problems.

Once you have faced the DMV, you are committed. You are now sent scrambling, and if you are in a small town that only has one DMV office and you have committed something, it is hard to change your story. If you have another DMV office, get your story straight and go to the different office.

Advice to all of you. Purchase a parts book for your car. Go to the front of the book, and the last entry before it starts listing parts is a paragraph that gives the location of the motor number and the car serial number. Take this book with you and show it to the DMV. Hard to argue with the written word.

Remember, the hardest job you will have with your new car is to get it titled. If you have yourself organized, it's just a matter of paying the money. GOOD LUCK!

I guess I don't understand this problem. In Tennessee you can MAKE your own car from parts out of a junkyard. If you have a VIN number from the firewall you're set,if you have a car that was BEFORE they issused VIN numbers you can still get a title by bringing the car(hotrod)down to the DMV for inspection. There are thousands of cars on the road made from dozens of types of cars. You can buy a frame ,body,engine,all from different sources and STILL get a title. It's almost impossible to stop someone from getting a title issued unless it is proven that the car is UNSAFE.
You may be required to show BOS and other paperwork to prove it isn't stolen,but it's not that hard to do. Car shows have every part imaginable from the frame to a complete car for sale.
I would ask the question..What do you need to make this happen? If they say the Vin number is not on the car, it wouldn't be very hard to get in writing that the car from 1938 did not have a VIN number, or it was built from parts. You may not get a normal title. You may get a reconstructed title, but will have a title that is legal.There are many types of titles.
If you had a title from another state,why would it not transfer? The DMV can talk to the other states DMV.

I'm confused about this,unless Cailfornia has some spiecal law that other states don't have due to emissions.

California is very tight on their laws. Arturo sent me pictures of the serial number plate which is brand new & very generic. I can't read the numbers but it looks like someone attached it right over the original. He has a title but we don't know as of yet what numbers are on it. Putting a new serial number plate on a car in California has raised some red flags as to "why" & is this actually the number for "this" car.
We hope to help Arturo resolve his issue & then maybe he'll sign up with the VCCA when this is all over. We don't get too many newbys that get this much attention....Joe

There is not enough room on this forum to discuss the differences between Tennessee and California. Suffice it to say that California is on the Left Coast dominated by special interests. Yes, I once lived there in relatively sane San Diego County but now even they have been effected by the rest of the state.

I guess you're right about the differences. Our plate cost $24.50, I don't care if it's a 2 million dollar Bugati or a Pinto. Antique cars generally pay sales tax on $1000, Tennessee doesn't get into apprasing antique cars. The plate is PERMANENT for LIFE.
We have No toll roads or bridges. No state tax. No emissions testing or general inspection costs. If you get stopped by the police driving a antique car,they more than likely want to see the car.
The drawback is Sales Tax . It's 9.8% unless a local tax was added ,which never goes over .2%, that's why we love tourists.

COME TO THE SMOKEY MOUNTAINS...and bring lots of CASH...grin

I get the sneaking suspicion that this may be an issue of someone buying an old title, stamping the number on a piece of aluminum, attaching it to a car and then selling the car. I've seen a member(?) selling old titles on this site and wondered how he was allowed to do that. Here is one of many for sale threads.

I've always wonder about that myself. These HUGE car shows have guys with booths selling almost any type of car title. Craigslist even has them. There has to be something wrong with that deal.

There was a scrap auto dealer in Kentucky who used to have titles that were from scrapped cars in the salvage yard. He was selling them at the time of $50.00 each. If he did not have the year that you needed, He could contact another scrap yard to find the title needed. These titles sometimes included the title plate, At a extra cost of $25.00.
But now it's easy to title a scrapped car in Kentucky as long as you have the proof of purchase and all the reciepts that where used to build the car and can pass an inspection by the KSP.

This one is getting out of hand. Assume you have a very nice car that has a correct title for the exact description and it is obvious this is a legitimate transaction. Asking price for the car is $xx,000. Next we have a similar car, has a title marked "reconstructed", car has many points that are not authentic, and the asking price is the same $xx,000. You tell me which car will fetch the higher dollar.

The point is that a legitimate car with a correct title is a more valuable car.

Sure, you can get a title for a pile of junk, so what?

I agree that a car with a builder title would sell for less but that doesn't make it right to sell a car as something it's not. Most places call that fraud. I certainly call it fraud.

Not only is it worth less, if the car is totaled,the insurance co. does NOT pay the normal price,that's true with flood and fire damaged cars also. The reconstructed title would be my last resort. Going to court against the DMV would not only be expensive but it would take forever before you would know the outcome.

I think talking nice and acting like you want to cooperate with the system seems to work best. Of course, political favors mean alot too. The county court clerk is an elected office...grin I'm just sayin...grin

Thanks again Joe for all your Help.

As we discussed earlier the Serial No. is 5HB0526962 which is the same number that is listed on my Title as the VIN Number. In hind sight I would strongly recommend to any member or vintage chevy owner, to use a "Vehicle Verifier", when dealing with registration issue, especially here in CA. Had I done so, me vehicle would already be registred. Lesson learned. I wanna thank ALL the VCCA member for their feedback and input. If you should have addtional questions, please feel free to ask. I will keep everyone posted on the outcome. Wish me Luck. Thanks again.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1939-1940-1...aa19&item=150711347737&pt=Motors ...Found this on Ebay...

Good Morning Gentelmen

UPDATE....Finally I was able to register my Vehicle. After steam cleaning the undercarriage and upon the second inspection, the CHP assigned a New CA VIN Number to my 38'. What a big hassle this turned out to be. Days off work, etc. I was really worried the CHP might keep my vehicle, Ive heard stories of where the CHP kept vehicles because of improper documentation and crushed them. I want to thank JOE for all his advice and support as well as the other members. Thanks again.

Respectfully submitted,
Arturo Orozco

That's really great news. Any stipulations with a new number as far as the state or car is concerned?....Joe

Because of my website I get asked all the time for help with cars that are missing the serial number plate. I keep saying that cars/trucks were registered in most states by the engine #..thanks to one H Ford Esq. Restorers and rust seem to have denuded vehicles of their plates over time... we get imported vehicles that have the same problem and out Welsh-located DVLA have got stroppier and stroppier over the years over new titling of vehicles with no ids. So you are not alone!

I was once emailed by the Las Vegas DMV, based in what they termed 'the auto theft capital of the USA'. They were perplexed by a rodded '50 that was originally Canadian. The serial # did not conform with what they had in their books. The car luckily had the original number stamped on a plate on the dash...which I verified as correct, and there was also another serial number possibly allocated by a Province or US state. They accepted what I said, and thanked me for confirming that the car was genuine.