I have never owned an American vehicle, plenty of English ones way back and a few Japanese cars, but more recently a few Alfas. So I'm embarrassed to say, I don't know much about what I have, but I am hoping to learn a bit from the experts.
I'm currently the custodian (not the owner!) of what I believe to be a 39 Chevrolet Master Deluxe van. I suspect that it may have originally been a pickup that was converted to a van - as I have not seen other vans online. But maybe it was a van from the start? It used to be owned by a baker and did the rounds as a delivery van to many government offices on week days, and football matches on Saturdays, in Canberra between about 1940 and 1970. Some time later it found a paddock at the back of a farm where it proceeded to quietly rot away. Fortunately in the early 2000s it was rediscovered and subsequently underwent an extensive restoration. It was not restored to concorso standards, but it is certainly a tidy and functional unit.
So, to my questions: (I hope I am allowed more than one)
1. The plate on the right hand side of the cowling, just under the bonnet (hood) is very corroded aluminium, but some stamped details can be seen: S39-1154 Does this accord with a 39 Master Deluxe 2 seater of some description? Below that are two further numbers: 2055 and 4500 but the black text on the plate is illegible. What do they indicate? It is of course possible that the plate does not belong to this vehicle and has been added to make it look complete.
2. The castings on the engine suggest (to me) that it is not the original engine. RHS of the engine just behind the dizzy is "GM" further to the right is "153" Below that appears to be "839238" though I am uncertain of the last two digits, they might be "53" The engine appears to be a 216. It has two bolts through the rocker cover and the side plate extends up to the base of the rocker cover with the spark plugs going through it. Does this casting indicate an age and or origin?
3. The engine number is WR3958387 I have read that the "R" indicates right hand drive - which would be what it should be here, but I have not found what the "W" indicates. Also the number appears to be way out of range for a 39 Chev. It has been suggested that it might be from a later Buick?
Any help in identifying what we have would be greatly appreciated.
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Welcome to VCCA Chat Peter. While we're waiting on folks in the know to come along and answer your question we'd LOVE to see some pictures of the van. Just click on Use Full Editor then click on Attachment Manager and follow the instructions. There are size limitations so if the pictures are large you might have to size them down. Also not as many people check the New User forum so I'll move this to General Discussions to get you a wider audience.
VCCA Member 43216 Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet. 1938 HB Business Coupe 1953 210 Sedan
Peter Welcome to VCCA, I am just down the road in Goulburn with a 38 1/2 ton truck. Your van looks to have been imported as a chassis and cowl only with the rest built here in Aus most likely at Fishermans Bend in South Aus.
With regards to the numbers on the alloy plate the "S39-1154" is the frame (chassis number) will most likely be stamped into the chassis near the rear of left front spring which wasnt used in the US at that time but is the main identification here in Aus. Without looking at the plate on my truck I think the other 2 numbers relate to tare (unladen)and gross (load and vehicle) weights.
When looking for parts remember it most likely came out of Canada and the US parts dont always cross over so ask for lots of details before buying out of the US.
There most likely will be another alloy plate a bit below the 1 you showed will only have some numbers and an abbreviated paint name will tell the manufacture date.
Thanks for those pointers. The Pie Cart might be at the Bricks & Humpies * car show next Sunday in Narrabundah, but unfortunately it will depend on the weather (which is not looking good!) :-(
Details are on the calendar of the Council of ACT Motor Clubs (CACTMC.org.au)
* For the benefit of our friends on the other side of the Atlantic: Bricks are Aussie lingo for the original Mini, while Humpies are FX & FJ Holdens - produced in the late 40s & 50s.
The Canberra pie cart is built on a 1939 Chevrolet Standard utility chassis, It will have an I beam front axle and leaf spring on the front, the data plate does indeed contain the chassis number , the Tare weight and then the Gross weight. The data plate is the same tare and gross weights ( in pounds) as a 1939 standard utility.
The chassis number having an S39- Indicates that the body and chassis were assembled in Sydney, The body is based on the passenger / cowl, which was also used on utilities and panel vans, but is is different to truck cowls, the doors are 1939 passenger sedan doors, with sharp rear corners, I would say that the body is from the GMH truck body workshops, as special orders were taken by GMH dealers.
The engine is dating to about 1943 , and would have replaced the original 1939 engine at a later date, the casting number is not in any data base , but would be a war time engine build , probably out of Canada, may be out a war time Chevrolet blitz or other military vehicle. The normal 1939 engine prefix in Australia is R , And for 1939 truck engines TR, The odd war time engine prefixes. Include WR, PR, SR and CR. No good records on exact meaning for those prefixes, CR. may be commercial , but generally truck engines and possibly other war time engines were similar to truck engines with heavy duty pistons , and engine governors , to limit engine over revving.
The casting date is seen to the right of the engine casting number, look like the last number is a 3, to indicate 1943. Casting , the cylinder head will also have a casting number and casting date under the rocker cover.
Many thanks for the background details on the Pie Cart's IDs. I have yet to find the frame number on the chassis to confirm that the plate on the cowl accords. And I feel that I owe it to you to lift the rocker cover to find the head casting IDs now too.
If the "153" casting on the engine indicates that it might be dated as 1943 due to the "3", does the "15" prefix indicate an origin by any chance?
I spent a bit of time researching brakes today. There is a lot of helpful info on the web. It appears the Pie Cart has a seized hand brake cable at the wheel end on one side only. But that will be the subject of a separate post.
My chassis number is very lightly stamped and took fine wet & dry paper over a large area to find it. The date codes often follow a numeral alpha numeral (5D9 for example) day/month/ last digit of year though I dont know how they differentiate the decade. The casting number are identified as 6 or 7 raised numbers cast (not stamped) therefore stand out like a sore thumb.
If you mean 30th April I may get there depending on my work but the following Sunday is clear at this stage.
As tony says, the chassis number is stamped into the left hand chassis rail , just behind the front left hand wheel, just behind the front left first body mount bracket the chassis will be indented. And the stamping will be very light, it is in the centre of the vertical outside surface of the chassis rail.
153. As the casting date would probably be 5th January 1943, It will be a Canadian casting , WW 2 lend lease engine in a Canadian Military Pattern vehicle, CMP blitz or similar vehicle. The records kept of casting during WW2. Were not important to the War Office. To help the war office get as many vehicles available they would have used whatever dies and casting tooling were still available to produce engines, the historians have said that the casting numbers for that engine were used over the 1940 to 1943 years. So it is probably a 1940 style engine cast in 1943.
Peter, the rear brake cables are unique to 1938 and 1939 Chevrolets only, they are not easy to find, You will be best to remove the stuck cable and soak it in kerosene , and or Auto transmission fluid for a week. Then, place the outer cable in a vice, and use some sort of slide hammer to try and pull the inner cable backwards and forwards, until it frees up. It depends on how much it is rusted inside, I successfully freed up both of my sedan cables that way, Alternately, remove them both and take them to a specialised brake shop that can make new brake cables to samples,
After some further searching, the frame number has been located - thank you Tony & Jack.
While it encourages me to believe that the plate on the cowl is actually correct, the frame number on the chassis rail is extremely hard to read. As Tony mentioned it is stamped very lightly! Consequently, in this case, only part of some of the hieroglyphs are discernible.
There is little doubt about the frame number "1154" as per the cowl plate. But confirmation of the origin and year are subject to a little more conjecture. It does appear to indicate that the year is 39. But the prefix (I am looking for an "S" or something else ... ) is really just a guess.
Anyway, I have attached an image - hopefully you can all see what I think I can see.
The other outstanding matter was the casting on the cylinder head.
That was easier to find than the frame number, but in the process it uncovered a few other issues! A weeping fuel line, hardened and broken grommets in the rocker cover, a gear box mount in need of alignment, and some wiring near the starter motor that needed urgent rerouting - to avoid it fouling on the clutch and brake levers! All in all, some preventative maintenance and a good day's work!
Anyway, the castings on the cylinder head (between cylinders 1 & 2) are in three parts. Top line in small font (between two screw heads!): "H - 14 - 9" Second line (larger font): "838773" Third line: "GM"
Yes it says S39-1154 the S 39. Is there although faint, the stamping is difficult because of the flexing of the steel. The cylinder head is the correct 1939 head casting number and date for 1939 , August 14 1939.
The chassis stamping is a little lighter than my 38 though it is on a heavy truck style not a sedan. As mine is stamped "S38-XX" and several have confirmed it to be a 38 but I havent sorted the "S" out yet I agree with yours being a 39 model. Tony
Yes, in Australia , the chassis frame was steel punch stamped leaving a permanent identification , the early USA chassis frames were stenciled with black paint at the AO Smith manufacturer
