Hi...... Finally, I have the timing right now... pointer on the ball at idle... octane selector on zero.... then Advanced the octane selector to 10... She starts right up and idles smooth... accelerates smooth (no delay & no backfire)... so all is well there..
Now, looking at my gauges the oil pressure and temp gauges are working while engine is running... but the Ammeter shows no movement, when the starter is cranking or the engine is at idle or revved up to about 2,000 RPM..... nothing... no movement either positive or negative so I polarized the generator (ignition off, with a wire touched to the 'Batt' terminal, and the 'Gen' terminal on the cutout) ... I got a spark... now polarized.... still nothing on the ammeter when starting or running So... I pulled the light switch again and checked the wire wrapped resistor on the back... (it shows no breaks in the wire, and checked it with ohm setting on multimeter.... It read 1.7 ohms.... and 1.4 a second time... cleaned all contacts and put the light switch back in... wired up correctly to new harness.... started it again... Nothing.... reading on ammeter..
I bought extra gauges on Ebay.. and I have three ammeter/oil pressure gauges... hooked each one up, while starting & running still NOTHING on the ammeters, the oil pressure gauges all work correctly... So I am STUCK..... How do I determine if the generator is charging the battery......?? if the gauge gives me No Reading....??? Is there a way to check the ammeter gauge, to see if that is what is Not working...?? How to check the Gauge and how to find out if the Gen is charging the Battery...???
attached photos show two of my ammeters (third one now in the dash) I have only one with the 3 studs & fuse ...and two with 2 studs (2 stud type in the car when I got it) none register movement... neither positive or negative.
Se page 143 in the 1934 shop manual for correct ammeter wiring.If ammeter is burnt out no eletrical energy will pass from pole to pole. With the original set-up the large wire gosed from the starter switch to the ammeter. With your push button conversio it may be diffeent.
I had the cutout & generator rebuilt and tested recently... the generator shop set it to charge at 10 amps... so I believe that is not the problem... and Glen... I have a big 10 ga. wire going from the large post on the starter solenoid to one side (post) on the ammeter... it shares the big solenoid post with the big 00 positive battery cable... so one side of the ammeter has direct 6 volts from the battery..... the other post has the big 10 ga. wire from the generator cutout 'Batt' side and a wire from the ignition switch positive 'ON' stud.... according to my repair manual wiring diagram....pg 140
One is to check the voltage at the battery when the engine is running at a speed of about 1200 rpm. That voltage should be well over 7 volts. If the voltage is only battery voltage (maybe 6.3 volts) there is no current passing through the ammeter.
This test is for an ammeter out of the car. You will need a test lead with 2 alligators clips and a 6 volt test light. I made a test light by soldering longer leads on the 2 wires out of a single filament bulb socket. I added alligator clips to each lead.
Connect one lead from the test light to a good ground on the car. Then touch the other lead to the starter terminal where the battery cable is attached. This will make sure the light is working.
Connect one lead from the test light to one of the ammeter posts. Connect one end of the other test lead to the other ammeter post. Then touch the other end of that test lead to the starter terminal. The ammeter needle should deflect when the light is on.
Also while the engine is running check what voltage (should be more than 7v for 6v battery) is at the Generator output and cutout output. There will nearly always be voltage output even if there is no amperage. Tony
Thanks for the suggestions... I just found a generator & ammeter test in my 1934 repair manual, page 124-126 here is what it says, "to test generator output, Start engine and run at 2200 rpm. With a screwdriver short the generator terminal on the circuit breaker (cutout). If there is a good flash (spark), the generator is charging, and the trouble is somewhere else in the system." WHEN THEY SAY, SHORT THE GEN. TERMINAL ... I am assuming they mean , touch the screw driver to the gen terminal and the Gen body (ground).... correct...???? Then they say to check the Cutout; " If there was a spark, indicating that the generator is charging, take a short piece of wire and short from the generator terminal on the circuit breaker (cutout), to the Battery terminal of the cutout and if the generator shows charge, (ON THE AMMETER..????), the circuit breaker (cutout) is at fault (bad), and should be replaced." "If the generator does not show charge, (ON THE AMMETER..???), with the circuit breaker shorted out, then there is an open circuit or damaged ammeter. I am going to try these tests today..... when they say to use a wire to short across the two terminals of the cutout.... I assume they are simply bypassing the cutout.... correct..?
yesterday I checked the battery voltage and it was low 6.09 and it did not increase after running the engine at a higher rpm for a few minutes.. in fact it went down to 5.89... The tests today should reveal something to me....
A fully charged battery should test at 6.4+ volts. If running the engine results in lower battery voltage the generator is not charging the battery. It may be the cutout.
I suggest you hook up a battery charger to the battery or shortly will not have enough power to start the engine.
Once started measure the voltage at the output of the generator. That is before the cutout. You may need to increase the engine speed to get the generator activated If you get 6.4+ volts the generator is okay.
Pull the cover off the cutout and push down on the points. You may get a small spark. The points should stay together. If not the cutout needs to be replaced or points cleaned. Measure the voltage at the battery side of the cutout. You should measure generator voltage or nearly so. Point resistance will be the difference.
You can remove the wire from the battery side of the cutout and temporarily hook it to the same screw as the generator output or use a jumper wire between the two screws (or wires) to run the engine. Just remember to remove the wire or jumper when you shut off the engine or the battery will drain trying to "motor" the generator.
Last edited by Chipper; 11/20/2202:44 PM. Reason: Added more on cutout
The Latest.... I found out the battery was draining because the cutout points were stuck closed, because the cutout cover was smashed down too far against the points keeping them closed (this must have happened when being shipped back to me after rebuild)..... I took the cutoff cover off bent the points so they were open about .025 and started it up... revved to 3,000 rpm and at first the 'gen' post on the cutout read 6. 7 volts and the batt side 6.5...... great..!!! Then a few minutes later ... I checked the 'gen' side of the cutout and it only read 2.0 volts and the points would not close and the batt side read 5.8 volts... damm.... I checked the points and the clearance was good & they open and close freely... and I started the engine 5 more times.. revving it up.. and still only 2 volts coming out of the generator..... I even polarized it again .. and ran it.. still only 1.98 volts and that is not enough to close the points.... Probably faulty cutout.. but the gen is not putting out 7 volts any more... so.. I am sending it back to the Generator shop that rebuilt it.. for further testing & repair...
The Latest.... I found out the battery was draining because the cutout points were stuck closed, because the cutout cover was smashed down too far against the points keeping them closed (this must have happened when being shipped back to me after rebuild)..... I took the cutoff cover off bent the points so they were open about .025 and started it up... revved to 3,000 rpm and at first the 'gen' post on the cutout read 6. 7 volts and the batt side 6.5...... great..!!! Then a few minutes later ... I checked the 'gen' side of the cutout and it only read 2.0 volts and the points would not close and the batt side read 5.8 volts... damm.... I checked the points and the clearance was good & they open and close freely... and I started the engine 5 more times.. revving it up.. and still only 2 volts coming out of the generator..... I even polarized it again .. and ran it.. still only 1.98 volts and that is not enough to close the points.... Probably faulty cutout.. but the gen is not putting out 7 volts any more... so.. I am sending it back to the Generator shop that rebuilt it.. for further testing & repair...
Thanks Mike.. I will if I need one.... I am wondering... if it would be smarter to install a different generator with a regulator....., instead of a cut out... and eliminate the resistor also on the light switch..... because I am using ALL LED bulbs in all my lights, (including headlights)... so the cut out and the light switch resistor, seam like they would be unnecessary... if I changed Generators... and had LED lights.... What Generator would bolt on to my Mounts and what regulator would mount on the firewall with this ..??? and if I changed those.. would I need to get rid of my light switch or just leave it with the resistor in...?? Advice please...!! I'm not concerned about keeping it all original... just interested in function....
If you want to modernize the charging system do what they did ib the old days, That is installing a 1940-1951 geneaqtor and voltage regulator,,,,,that would be the long generator withe removable band,,,,,not the 195201954 short generator with no ban and several different voltage regulators to cover the several regulators used for those years.
Gene... would I need to change the light switch.. or just leave it as is, with the resister in it... ???? and would you know any where I could buy a REBUILT 1940-1951 Chevrolet generator and regulator..???
Regulators are easy to come by, You should get guys here for the generator. You will akso need the bracket that bolts to the block, bottom of genertor, as the generator is longer and a generator pulley.
Gene... when you say, "just eliminate the Resistor"..... do you mean I should remove it, or put a solid bar where it was...?? what about the wire hooked up to one side of it.. where does that wire now go...?? or buy a regular old 6 volt light switch.. that has no resistor..??
The easy way to eliminate the resistor is to connect the wire that goes to the input side of the resistor to the other side, or putting similar sized wire across the resistor effectively bypassing the resistor out of the circuit. Tony
I strongly recommend that you are sure you know what is wrong with the current system before you start making changes.
Consider this scenario. You find, purchase, and install a newer style generator and regulator. You modify your wiring to adapt to the new system. Then you start the engine and the ammeter responds the same as now.
Is it the new parts and wiring? Or is it a problem in the wiring and parts that were not changed?
well Rusty.... regardless if my ammeter is showing charge.. I know now that first my cutout points were stuck closed... causing my ammeter to show 20 amps discharge,..... with the battery disconnect on and the ignition off... so I unstick the cutout points and ran the engine at 3,500 RPM and checked the volts on the Gen side of cutout.. and the generator was putting out only 1.98 or 2.00 volts.... generator not charging... did this check 4 times after polarizing the generator... no charge... so I thought to send my gen back to the guy that rebuilt it (in another state)... then I figured that I would get rid of the first generator.. the whole cutout resistor situation and try an improved system with two brush Gen, known to recently work fine..... and a new 301 regulator ..... From what I have read here on my search on this subject... the resister and points cutout system in more troublesome than the gen/regulator system... less components controlling charging... I do Not need the resistor affecting the generator output for LED lights... I am just explaining my reasoning thought process about this decision to change generators and cutout/resistor for a new voltage regulator....... I would appreciate a description about where my existing wires will go on the new 1102667 gen and 301 regulator... I do not have a clue about wiring the newer system...
IMHO if you do not have a clue about wiring the newer generating system to include a regulator it sounds like a potential mess that may go badly since you live in a rural area. To ensure reliability some members have converted their cutout to a 50 amp diode. Once you put the cover on only you will know. I have one on my '29 coupe because that cutout stuck several times. The other 2 cars that have a similar charging system are original type cut outs and work fine. Most of the regulators had some form of a cutout built into them as well so it may not be eliminating the point of failure that you are hoping for.
I try to look at the amp meter after turning off the car every time. If it shows a discharge there is a draw and the cutout has not opened. It is the same for all the old style charging systems regardless if they have a regulator or just a cutout.
I now have found a wiring diagram for the #1102667 generator and #301 regulator... and how they get wired to each other and to the light switch and the ammeter & ignition switch.... so I feel that I may be able to make the transition correctly.... My new generator and regulator are on the way... while waiting, I have bought and installed, new double action gas filled shocks on the rear ... and my Dubonnet knee-action shocks are being rebuilt... Yesterday I took the driver's door apart, (removed old upholstery, paneling), and removed the wind vent regulator that has broken pot metal, and was not working... I am wondering where I can buy some of the door handle horseshoe type clips....??? I also tried to raise that big heavy door up (Town sedan)... (it sags low about 1/2"...... I followed the instructions in my repair manual.. adding a 3/16" shim under the 2nd body bolt....it helped a little but not enough to properly align the door to the opening... still low... so I am planning on adding a turn-buckle to the door stiffener rod... and see if that will pull it up a little more.... I really appreciate all the advice & suggestions I get here from my fellow Chevy lovers... Thanks, Sunny
There was / is a generator modification to the early third brush generators , which fitted an electronic regulator inside the generator housing after removing the 3rd brush from the generator, and fitting the electronic regulator inside the generator under the brush cover, James Peterson was making and selling them, there is an article on the web regarding fitting one of these regulators into a 1933 plymouth. There is also articles on the web for the same modifications to model A and T fords
This #1102887 generator that I am getting is a two brush generator with an exterior firewall mounted regulator... should work just fine as is... it has recently been tested at a generator repair service.. the regulator is new......
