I want to remove my original fuel tank so that I can take it to be cleaned, tested and repaired if required. I am seeking advice on the best strategy for removing and reinstalling the original tank while avoiding any known pitfalls. What parts I should have on hand if any of the originals can't or shouldn't be reused.
The tank looks sound enough from the bottom but has a minor leak from the sender area gasket at the top when overfilled. Some preliminary testing may indicate that the sender may be faulty, so I planned to have a replacement on had if the original can't be easily repaired. I have a new fuel line ready to install from Inline Tube once tank is reinstalled.
I've been running down the amount of fuel in the tank but not sure how far down I should go and what would be the best way to remove what remains. The drain plug looks a bit mangled so I'd welcome a picture of what it should look like or where a replacement can be found. I've yet to figure out how to attach photos in this forum but my damaged plug looks like it was originally a hex head with a standard screwdriver slot in the middle. Difficult to see for certain. I'm apprehensive to use a vise grip to remove it without having a replacement on hand. The car has the 216 inline six with a Rochester model B carburetor and I reckon that there could still be at least 4 gallons remaining in the fuel tank if I'm getting 10 miles to the gallon.
Thanks in advance for any wisdom you're willing to share.
For a long time only dues paying members were allowed to post images directly in a thread. Non members had to use a hosting service. Recently a change was made to allow all users to embed photos so you "should" see the following: When originating a thread or when clicking on Use Full Editor to reply in a thread, toward the bottom of the page on the left you should see Attachment Manager. Click on that and follow the prompts. Be aware there are size limits to images. If you upload too large an image it won't display. The old way is sometimes easier when you upload your images to a hosting site then post links to them. If you had a Business Coupe like mine I could be of more assistance. Pictures will be a huge help in helping us see what you're dealing with. Good luck.
VCCA Member 43216 Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet. 1938 HB Business Coupe 1953 210 Sedan
I agree that removing the slotted screw head drain plug can be a challenge. I was able to remove mine but did it after the tank was removed from the car. I have a ‘37 coupe. I drained the tank through the fuel shutoff valve the connects to the fuel line going to the pump. The alternative is to siphon the rest of the fuel out before removing the tank.
I replaced that slotted head plug with one that has an internal hex. I can now remove it with an Allen wrench.
Your tank is not difficult to remove, just awkward. It is outside the car in the rear. That is a lot easier than climbing into the trunk of a coupe and removing the floor.
The nuts that tension the straps can be difficult to remove. Soak them in penetrating oil for a couple of days. Try to hold the threaded rod portion of the strap so you do not twist the straps.
That is interesting that the engine has a Rochester B carburetor. I am not familiar with how that carburetor works on the older 216. Your car came with a Carter W1. The Carter YF was often used as a replacement.
With respect to sending units, there are mixed results with the aftermarket universal replacement units. The first thing is to make sure that it is a 0 to 30 ohm unit. You will have an advantage because you have the tank out of the car. You can roll the tank upside down to figure out how to adjust the float to measure the full range from empty to full.
Thanks for that. It couldn't be easier once you learn how. I attached five files and hoping they appear . . .
I included a picture of the gas filler tube as I am also looking for the correct gas filler gasket for my car. There seems to be several variables and people selling them but which is correct as my car came with a piece of rubber with a hole cut in it.
Last edited by tlg; 07/14/2210:48 PM. Reason: spelling
Interesting. I don't recall seeing a drain plug like that on my 38. None of the pictures I took show the bottom side and I hope to never have to remove it again so I guess I'll never know. As for the sending unit below is the OEM unit. Save it if you can. Repop sending units are junk.
VCCA Member 43216 Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet. 1938 HB Business Coupe 1953 210 Sedan
I would forget about that drain plug for now. The last thing you want is for it to break. I would try and syphon as much out as possible. I had my sender for the 38 restored by, I think it was John Wolf. It looked beautiful after and worked for one season.
My 1951 1 Ton is now on the road! My 38 Master 4 Door is also now on the road .
When I stripped my tank out I refurbished the sender unit and cleaned up the contacts on the resistor etc, made a new cork gasket and cut a hole in the trunk floor to enable access to the sender unit once all installed again. Doing that has saved me a lot of time without tank removal again to get to the sender.
I think it's likely tig's tank and drain are original to the car. I say this based on the pictures just generously posted above by Pitcrew. Although a little hard to see with enough detail, it appears to my eye that their two tanks and drains look the same.
I was also comparing the fuel tank photo provided by Pitcrew side by side on the screen with my fuel tank and I would agree they appear to match including the drain plug. I would certainly prefer to keep my original sender if I can somehow resolve the problem when I have it out. I did contact TriStarr to discover there is currently a 5-1/2 month turnaround time to get mine rebuilt. I would certainly not want to take my drive it weekly vehicle off the road for that length of time. My thought is to buy a repop to put in once the tank is reconditioned and get the original rebuilt. Seeing the photos of what the original senders look like are very interesting and comparing them to a repop it is easy to see the difference in quality. The problem is if removing and replacing the tank is as difficult as I've imagined it to be in my head, I won't want to hurry and do it again. I know, I'm not brave enough to cut a hole in the trunk floor for easy access. After a sufficient period of time (5-1/2 months), I just may be up to doing it again.
**There doesn't appear to be any sort of turn off valve between the fuel tank and the fuel pump. Should there be and if not, should I plan to put one in?
Seem like nice people in the business for 29 years if you don't know of them already and need their services: TriStarr LLC 267 Neal Rd North Pitcher NY 13124 (607) 486-4001 M-F 9:30am-4pm EST. https://tristarrradiator.com/
Useful advice from Rusty 37 on the actual removing of the tank and I will be reading it carefully when the time of removal approaches which will be soon as once I acquire some sort of pump to remove the remaining fuel.
Quoting Rusty 37 regarding the carburetor "That is interesting that the engine has a Rochester B carburetor. I am not familiar with how that carburetor works on the older 216. Your car came with a Carter W1. The Carter YF was often used as a replacement."
When I purchased my car over a year ago now, it came with a Blair Collector Car Appraisal that mentioned the carburetor: " . . . has been refitted with a later Rochester carburetor replacing the original Carter W-1 (Chevrolet issued a Service Bulletin in the 50's recommending this change for all six-cylinder Chevrolet's with down-draft carburetors.) Vehicle also has a later type in-line fuel filter and pump replacing the glass bowl ones "
After updating the gas tank, my intention was to return the car to an original Carter W-1 carburetor, a glass bowl inline filter and glass bowl fuel pump which your inputs would be most welcome. Maybe I need to start a separate thread when I get to that point but for now any thoughts for or against to achieving the end goal would be welcome.
I've attached photos of the Rochester on the car and the untried Carter W-1s I've acquired. I'll need to make a decision soon as whether to the get the Rochester rebuild or one of the Carter W-1s.
I appreciate everyone's input in this matter as your input is a valuable resource to us newbies.
I think you are completely on the right track. Chevrolet switched to the Rochester on the 216's in 1950 I believe. But some of us think the Carter W1 was actually a better carburetor.
The only issue I've found with the W1 was that I couldn't get any of several I have (including a rebuilt one) to run right at idle/off idle/light acceleration until I pulled 2 of the copper plugs out of the idle circuit passages so I could clean the vertical passage to the needle and the horizontal passage AND the smaller economizer orifice inside. You will need the right specifications to know which gauge size drill bit to use for the economizer. I have these if you need them. And use only your fingers to run the drill bits in and out. And be very careful cleaning the economizer so you don't oversize it. I had to do the job myself, as most rebuilders don't seem to ever remove those plugs.
So I am now very happy with the Carter W1. It's simple, reliable, and does the job well. And like you, I used it to replace a Rochester B.
This is an excellent web page for identifying the right carburetors for the right years: https://www.thecarburetorshop.com/CarterChevroletW1.htm As the page suggests, stick to a carburetor from 1937 (346s) or later. Those from 1941 and later (483s and 574s) have a few more improvements, and are mostly visually the same. And the man behind the web page is an invaluable wealth of information on Carter carburetors!
Looking at thecarburetorshop link, I believe the Carter w-1 carburetors I own to choose from are as follows :
1. 1937 Chevrolet 346s - 1937 marked the introduction of the 4-hole bowl cover. This corrected the next-to-the-last major design flaw in the W-1. Carter recognized that the pressure exerted by the pump return spring caused the 2-hole bowl cover to warp profusely, and corrected the problem. While other problems still exist, the 1937 carburetors, when properly restored, have decent performance and are fairly reliable. This is the first year W-1 that we can recommend using on daily drivers as well as number-matching showcars. However, the carburetors are still scarce and expensive. 346s (Chevrolet 838526) was used on the Master, and 358s (Chevrolet 595959) was used on the Fleet vehicles. All W-1’s from this date forward have low idle screws, 4-hole bowl covers, and 3-hole airhorns. These carburetors have the following characteristics (to aid in identification if the tag is missing): Bottom stamp (if still present): 346s – 292; 358s – 305. Throttle arm has three bends (previous units had none) Two-piece choker valve.
2. 1938 Chevrolet 391s tag with stamp on base of 337- The 391s differs from the 346s primarily in the use of the 1-piece choker valve replacing the 2-piece, and a change in the relief on the choker spring (now external instead of internal). The stamp number for the 391s (if still present) is 337.
3. 1938 Chevrolet 391s (Chevrolet 838682) tag. The carburetor used on the Master was 391s (Chevrolet 838682).
Having not rebuilt a carburetor before, I was considering a local carburetor shop with a supposedly good reputation according to a shop that rebuilds hotrod classics. Reading your obvious specialized knowledge regarding Carter W-1s, I now wonder if they would know to "clean the vertical passage to the needle and the horizontal passage AND the smaller economizer orifice inside" but instead just slap a rebuild kit in and after paying them lots of cash, it won't run right.
___________________________ Terry
VCCA#58150
How can I get a member icon? I only seem to have a user choice
I could be wrong, and maybe others here have had better luck than me, but it appears to me that most shops will soak the carburetor in cleaner and then blow out the passages without removing the plugs. If you are lucky, that may be all that is required. Didn't work for me. (by the way, I am up here in Canada)
I would suggest visiting the shop you are considering, and take along a carburetor. Ask to speak to the shop foreman. Show him/her the carburetor and explain the issue with the need for clean idle passages, and the small orifice in the horizontal passage at the top of the circuit. A diagram of the circuit to show them would probably help. Ask them if they are able to remove and replace the copper plugs if needed. If they don't want to talk details about what they will do for your carburetor, or say they can't or won't remove the plugs if necessary, I'd look elsewhere.
I notice 2 of the carburetors in the picture you posted above have the upward angled threaded port for the vacuum advance. The other has the straight out horizontal port. And they have the differences in the choke as well. If complete originality is a concern, you may want to keep that in mind. Otherwise, choose the cleanest one you have with the tightest throttle shaft. Personally, I also look for carburetors that have brass plugs with clean sharp screw driver slots that look like they haven't been tampered with (much).
There are others on here that are far better and far more experienced than I with Carter W1's. And I've consulted THEM about removing plugs in the past. Hopefully one of them from your side of the border will join the conversation and suggest a shop or person you can rely on.
If you are wanting to change to a Member icon... Have you clicked on your login name at the upper right of the screen, then clicked on "Edit Profile" in the drop down, then scroll down on the page that appears until you see the heading "Forum Profile", under "Group Images to Display" you should see a box with VCCA Member, click on the box.
If that doesn't change you to the Member icon, you may have to message and administrator to help.
Terry, I tried to fix your member icon but it seems I've buggered something up. I've tried clicking the member icon for you and un-checking the User icon but all that did was remove the icon from your signature. I've not been successful in getting any icon to display in your posts. Someone with more knowledge than me in fixing this will have to assist. I apologize for any mess I may have made. I'd recommend revisiting your profile and making sure you have the Member option checked. If the option is not visible to you you'll need to contact Member Services.
VCCA Member 43216 Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet. 1938 HB Business Coupe 1953 210 Sedan
I'm looking for advice on the remaining step or steps on how best to remove my fuel tank. I tried to PBlast the bolts enough to unbolt them and I was having some success on one strap at first and none on the other. In the end, I was forced to cut them with a hacksaw. The fuel line is disconnected, outer straps removed and the fuel filler tube is disconnected.
I had pumped what I thought was the remaining fuel in the tank before heading down this road but after seeing the pressure of the strap being released when I cut the first one made me remove the drain plug. I was sure it was empty so was only expecting a dribble. Luckily, I had some basins handy because at least 3 more gallons came out.
The reason I thought I'd ask first is I'm starting to think I may need to remove part of the exhaust for the tank to clear. I hope not but if so, how much and how\where to? Hopefully just some Houdini trick is all that remains if you can tell me the secret. I assume the rubber on the filler tube to tank needs to be replaced. Where would that be found?
As an epilog to my fuel tank thread . . . I was able to remove the fuel tank . . . . had it inspected to discover there wasn't any rust inside . . . treated the rust on the outside of tank . . . . reinstalled the original fuel sender with a new gasket as it appeared to be working during testing so I renewed the wiring & added a ground wire . . . . managed to reinstall the tank with only a few scrapes which I touched up after the photo was taken . . . . installed a new steel fuel line from tank to fuel pump.
and best of all, I was able to restart the car with no sign of leaking.
