VCCA Home Forums TECHNICAL - GENERAL Body - Sheet Metal, Paint & Wood 1941-48 window regulator rebuild

We have had some posts lately on rebuilding parts of window regulators. They discussed replacing the rollers on the arms and getting the rivets to collapse. I thought I would begin a discussion on the general rebuilding of a regulator. Eventually, the normal aging process for a regulator will see either a problem with the window being hard to roll up, or the window glass doesn't stay up. By the "stay up problem" I mean you roll the window all the way up and after a few miles you notice it has fallen an inch or two. Another less common problem would be the large regulator spring just breaking from corrosion. This would make even a new window regulator extremely hard to operate. Replacement parts for a rebuild are available from Chevs of the 40's regulator parts Removing the regulator and the glass mounted on it require a carefully reading of your shop manual. Don't try to wing it, your just asking for a lot of frustration or a scratch in your glass.

Once the regulator is out it will look like the one in these pictures. Rust is normal, the rollers are made out of leather so they are usually in even poorer condition than pictured, and any lubricant on the parts has long since hardened or disappeared. This regulator was working fine but since I am preparing the car for a new paint job I am refurbishing its body parts. About 8 years ago I redid the other three regulators so will show you the steps on the last one I need to rebuild.








http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u560/41chevymike/IMG_2128_zps813c06db.jpg

I have included a link to my Photobucket page so you can see all my regulator pictures, as well as seeing other pictures I have taken to document some of my other work.

Window regulators are specific to the right or left sides of a car, and back regulators do not fit in the front doors. Back regulators in coupes or sedans are especially hard to remove from the surrounding sheetmetal they are mounted on. My best advice is make sure the regulator is in the up position and you work it around so it is completely on its side. You can then struggle to pull the end closest to the door pillar out. I am seriously considering enlarging the opening in the sheetmetal about 1/4 of an inch to make it easier to install and remove each of the back regulators.

After removing the regulators I take them to my sandblast cabinet for a good cleaning. If you do not have a cabinet then I would just set them in some used transmission fluid to soak overnight. Next take a wire brush and clean off as much rust and crud as you can. The transmission fluid should have seeped into the crank mechanism and if the spring is good then you now have it well lubricated. If the spring is bad then the window would have not stayed all the way up when you closed it. The next pictures show the crank mechanism that the window handle is fastened to, and the small spring inside it.

If you sand blast the regulator sand will get into the spring so it must be taken apart by removing the 3 rivets holding it in place. To do this first remove the large regulator spring. I use a large channel lock pliers to do this. I squeeze the spring and tilt it up freeing the end where it it is hooked for tension.









Reassemblying the crank will be a challenge. You will need to buy 3 rivets of the right diameter at your hardware store. Don't buy solid rivets, get the ones that are predrilled with a hollow end. The predrilled ones must then be drilled a little deeper so the rivet collapses tightly. You may even have to file a little off of the head of the rivet to make it fit under the large gear. I will discuss this with pictures when I rebuild my crank tomorrow.

Time to say goodnight, Mike

Today I dissasembled my regulator so I could do a final cleanup and put a coat of Por 15 on it. Not thinking I reinstalled the new rollers before I painted the regulator. This complicated my painting but things worked out well.

To remove the old rollers I took about a 19/64" bit and drilled a 1/8" hole on the back side of the rivet. I then took a chisel and hammer and tapped off the remainder of the head. It doesn't take much effort to remove the remainder of the rivet. If the roller didn't fall off with the chiseling then tap it out with a punch.



I then took a new rivet and placed it in my large vise. I squeezed it to about the size of the hole it fits into on the arm. I did this slowly so I saw that the rivet was collapsing evenly. Next I put the roller on the rivet, placed it in the hole of the regulator arm, checked to see that I had placed it on the correct side of the arm, and slowly compressed it to a tight fit. This method of collapsing a rivet has always worked well for me, and looks as good as any factory installation.





Tomorrow I will reinstall the clutch on my freshly painted regulator.
Thanks, Mike

P.S. These are the leather like original roller parts minus the rivet.

Not to criticize but just wondering? The hole the rivet goes through is 5/16" right? It appears that the rivet roller you have is 1/4". If not how could you pre-flair and still get it in the hole.

Doing my '48 I too ordered the rollers from COT40s and when I discovered they were only 1/4", I called them. I explained the hole was 5/16 and their roller was 1/4", they didn't know what to tell me. I then called the Filling Station and explained. They told me I wasn't the first and they have the correct 5/16"
rivet roller. Other than that, looks good.

Just thought you and others might like to know.

Hi Ruscar,

Thanks for the heads up. My intent is to get this posting as accurate as possible so others will not be confused. In fact I have been unable to find a diagram of the parts on a regulator and their proper names. So if anyone can help please let me know. I know some of the names I gave the parts are probably not right. So far I have identified the following names from Chevs of the 40's and my manual. Rollers are what the manual refers to as cams, a clutch spring is the the spring inside the shaft assembly that the handle is attached too, a cam channel is what the cam (roller) rides on, the cam channel is attached to the sash channel which is the metal piece the glass is mounted in.

The following pictures shows a Chevs of the 40's roller and rivet. I probably purchased it quite a while ago. I bought several about 8 years ago to rebuild my regulators. The small end is indeed 1/4 of an inch while the larger roller surface is 3/8 of an inch. The hole in the arm is 5/16 of and inch. So there is plenty of room to begin compressing the rivet before setting it in the hole of the arm. A vise is really a must for this job, with it you can really get a good large consistent flare.

I did get the shaft for the handle installed today on the regulator so will post the pictures and an explanation later.
Thanks, Mike

[color:#CC0000][/color]

1/4" left....5/16" right. Will fit snug in the hole and prevent any possibility of becoming loose and movement in the future.

Today I reinstalled the clutch assembly (where the handle attaches) to the painted regulator. I began by filing all three rivets to better fit the contour of the area where they attached. All three needed about 1/8th of and inch removed from the side of their heads, and the one that the gear rides over needed to be filed flat enough to fit under the gear. The third picture shows how I reshaped them. I did all my filing by holding the rivet in my vise with its head about 1/8th of an inch above the top of the vise. I was very careful not to tighten the vise so much as to deform the rivet. The second picture shows the rivet in the vise.








All the rivets I used were 1/4th of an inch in length, 3/16th of an inch in diameter, and hollow to within about 1/8th of an inch of the rivet head. The original rivets were 1/8th of an inch in diameter. Since my ACE Hardware did not carry that size I made do with the larger diameter rivet. I used the 3/16th of an inch rivet on all my regulators. Since the two pieces of metal that the rivets hold is much thinner I increased the depth of each rivet about another 1/16th of an inch with my drill. This was important to get the rivet to collapse enough to hold everything tightly. I used my needle point pliers to hold the rivet while drilling it deeper.




The next thing I did was lubricate the clutch with a light coat of white grease and reassembled it.


When reassembling the clutch spring it is important to return it to its original position. The ends of the spring must align with the wear notches that have formed on the clutch. Look closely at the next picture and you will see that on the right side the end of the spring is at the top, the left end then is on the bottom. At this point you must seat all the spring next to the bottom of the cup holding it. To do this use a small screw driver and carefully force the spring down into the cup. This does require some patience and you can turn the clutch right or left to help draw the spring into place. When finished the clutch spring must be atleast 1/8th of an inch lower than the rim of the cup that holds it. Not aligning this correctly will cause your window glass to not stay all the way up




With the clutch all reassembled it is now time to attach it to the regulator. First place the rivets in their correct positions then move the gear so it is centered between the stops at either end. The stops are the toothless areas at the ends of the gear. Turn the regulator over and set the clutch in place. With all the rivets in place it is now time to compress them to attach the clutch. Having a large vise is the easiest way to collapse the rivets. The following pictures show how I did this with all three rivets. Please take your time and gradually compress each rivet. Check your progress by taking the regulator out of the vise to make sure everything is aligned. Do remove the regulator about 3 times for each rivet. I used a 1/4th inch thick by 3 inch long piece of steel with my vise.







I purposely am giving you the link to my Photobucket library so you can see how my riveting turned out. Additional regulator pictures are there as well as some of my other 41 projects.

Tomorrow I will post how I reinstalled the large regulator spring.

Thanks, Mike
[img]http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u560/41chevymike/IMG_2263_zpsc1e8e00f.jpg[/img]

Hi Ruscar,

I used the smaller 1/4 inch rivet and it worked great, as shown by my awesome results. I am now aware that 5/16 inch rivets are available and likewise would fit awesome as long as you do not begin compressing them before installation.

Thanks , Mike

Well its time to install the large spring on the regulator. It is by far the most challenging part of the rebuild because of the physical strength needed to manipulate it in place. The easiest way I have found to do this is with about a yard of good strong rope, my big vise, and a good pair of leather gloves.

Because my vise is not on a workbench bolted to the floor I had to place my foot up on the side of the vise to hold the vise and workbench in place while I pulled on the rope. At my age I didn't even think I could lift my leg that high? But gripping the rope wound around my hand and pulling with both hands tightened up the spring enough to put it back in its original place. Who would of thought that a spring that came off easily with a channel lock pliers would take such strength to put back? If anyone has a better idea I'm all ears?

The first picture shows which way the spring sets on the regulator.


This picture shows how I tied the rope threw the large hole in the gear and you can see the spring now resting in its original position.



The last picture shows the channel lock pliers in place to remove the spring.



Hope this has all made sense and you feel a little less intimidated by rebuilding your regulators?



Thanks, Mike

It has come to my attention that the window regulator clutch springs are different for 1929-39 and 1940-1948. Both sizes are available from Chevs of the 40's. The link to them is below.

Clutch springs 1929-39 and 1940- 48

Best wishes, Mike

Update

I have found it is easier to use my tongue and groove Channellock pliers to reinstall the large spring and not struggle with a rope. It is also very important that the arm where it is attached to the regulator frame is not loose. If there is a lot of wear and movement caused by the loose rivet, you will not get good alignment of the glass as it slides up the window channel.

Be extra careful when riveting the crank mechanism to the regulator frame so you do not bend the frame in the area of the rivets. To make things a little easier I have begun using a rivet gun for two of the three rivets. A bent frame will also cause potential alignment problems as the teeth of the crank align with the teeth on the moving frame mechanism.

I have also noticed problems with the small springs used in the cranks. It seems the diameter of the new ones is bigger causing fit problems so I am reusing old springs rather than trying to shorten and rebend the new ones. Has anyone else had problems with the new replacement springs?

Does anyone have a list of the correct names for the regulator parts?

Thanks, Mike

Hi Mike, I suddenly have the problem that my window regulator goes down, but then it can not be cranked up again at all, or only with extreme force. The window is hands free and also the window lifter is free. Can this be caused by the spring in the clutch unit?

Alligator:

Check your private messages.

Alligator
Hopefully, Mike will chime in on this inquiry. But, in the meantime I will hazard a guess based on my having rebuilt these mechanisms on my ‘46 Chevy 1/2 ton truck. The photos Mike posted in this thread are nearly identical to the those mechanisms on the truck. If memory serves, it was likely Mike that helped me repair those mechanisms. He did an excellent job in explaining the process.

My guess is the metal rollers Mike referenced, and replaced with plastic, might be seized on the rivet shaft. The metal roller has become worn to the point there is now a flat spot on the outer edge thereby preventing much if any movement. The symptoms you described are similar to those discovered on the truck.

Good luck!

37blue
In the meantime I had contact with Mike by mail. He advised me to remove the lifter. I did that today. When testing outside, it can be easily cranked down, when cranking up something jams or goes very difficult. Therefore, as described in Maik's posting, I will drill out the rivets and see what the fault is. Maybe it is also just dirty.

Alligator
After reading your reply I recalled that same journey was also necessary on the truck project. The entire cup with spring etc, was replaced with new reproduction parts from either the Filling Station or Chevs of the 40’s. If you need photos, additional to those Mike offered in his tutorial, let me know. The task must not have been too challenging. Otherwise, the ordeal would likely have been more quickly recalled. Good luck!

@37Blue - thank you for your support. Unfortunately the WINDOW REGULATOR REPAIR KIT is not available at the moment, neither at Filling nor at Cot40s. The spring is only available at Cot40s, but they don't ship under €150 to the EU. But at the moment I don't need any parts.
The last purchase of almost $600 for brakes and axle parts + $300 customs , was enough for me for the next while.
So I had to think about another way to solve the problem. First, let's take a look at the cause. As you can see from the pictures after disassembly, the spring was broken at the end on one side. So it could not be turned anymore and when I tried to turn the window up, the spring get coiled / bent. Searching for a new spring in Germany was unsuccessful.
The final idea was to cut off the damaged end and make new "lugs". this made it a little shorter, but should still serve its purpose -I hope ;-) It was a bit difficult to bend the spring, but at least the first test without window was successful. Didn't use rivets because I don't want to drill them out again if it doesn't work.
Alternativ i used countersunk screws. Slightly countersunk the hole and the screw fits, so there is no problem with blocking the the lever arm gear
The function of the spring was a mystery to me. Apparently she, due to its larger diameter compared to the cap, serves as a friction torque for the window?!

Andre’
Sorry you couldn’t get the parts from the vendors.

A couple of thoughts:
*** I used a thread adhesive on the nuts/bolts holding the “cup” in place, as shown in your photo with the new hardware. It’s called “Locktite”, here. It comes in different strengths.

*** In case your spring repair solution doesn’t work and a replacement can’t be found otherwise, maybe a machinist near you could duplicate what is needed? It is possible to make one yourself. It’s a bit tricky, but doable using piano wire of the same gauge thickness as the original spring. My guess is a thickness close to that gauge will work too? I had to do this myself for a door latch spring replacement. A retired high school shop teacher friend explained the process to me. It took a couple of attempts to learn, but the effort was worth it.

A good tip, I will remember. But as it looks, the repair is crowned with success 👌🏻