Reproduction Parts for 1916-1964 Chevrolet Passenger Cars & 1918-1987 Chevrolet & GMC Trucks


Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Offline
ChatMaster - 1,500
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
Interesting article, thanks Harry

Filling Station - Chevrolet & GMC Reproduction Parts


Filling Station


Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Offline
ChatMaster - 1,500
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
I put a gallon of Anti Freeze, G05 in with the distilled water and it was still foaming. There was water /steam starting to come out of the exhaust pipe. I re torqued the head again hoping that was the problem. It stopped the steam and water but no luck on the foaming. I pulled the plugs and did a compression test. Looks like I have something going on with 4 and 5. There is also a slight rust color on those plugs. Does this point to a gasket vs a cracked head or is it too little info.

I have trouble moving these heads around when they are easy to get to. Any suggestions on how to make removal and replacement easier than it looks?

Thanks

Attached Images
31 comp test plugs.jpg
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Offline
ChatMaster - 1,500
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
It looks like the gasket failed but that may be wishful thinking. The head is at the machine shop so I should know in a few weeks.

Dave

Attached Images
31 head repair 2.jpg 31 head repair block.jpg
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 656
Likes: 3
Oil Can Mechanic
Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 656
Likes: 3
Yes, that's definitely bad, and it must have been blown into the water jacket as well to give you all the bubbles. I am a bit surprised your 'blue liquid' didn't find CO2 in the radiator, though I have seen that a time or two before where it failed to catch a combustion leak into the coolant. It usually doesn't miss, and if it turns yellow there's no doubt.

I'm glad you have finally found it I would take a straightedge and feeler gauges and check that area for warp, both on the block and head. Keep us posted!

P.S. Whats this little yellow line? Is it just an illusion or is it a trail of some kind?

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by bloo; 07/26/22 06:10 PM.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Offline
ChatMaster - 1,500
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
Thanks Bloo you helped me get my steps in today walking back to the shop, that sure looked like a crack but it must have been some gasket trace.

Here is an updated photo of the spot.

Thanks

Dave

Looks like a wire in the coolant jacket, is that common?

Attached Images
31 head repair 3.jpg
Last edited by Dave39MD; 07/26/22 09:17 PM.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 656
Likes: 3
Oil Can Mechanic
Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 656
Likes: 3
Left over from sand casting the block I'll bet.

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 734
Likes: 14
Oil Can Mechanic
Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 734
Likes: 14
Hello Dave39MD,
"I have trouble moving these heads around when they are easy to get to. Any suggestions on how to make removal and replacement easier than it looks?" I would say that it is not as easy as it looks getting the head off and back on with the engine in the car. It gets crowded with helping hands while trying to muscle the head around at arms length. You might think about an engine hoist to lift and guide the head or if you can gain access to fork lift or tractor with forks. Remove one fork, chain up head to remaining fork, then lift and guide head onto position. I know it sounds like a pain, but it may be the help you need to keep you out of pain.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 19,756
Likes: 62
ChatMaster - 15,000
Offline
ChatMaster - 15,000
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 19,756
Likes: 62
Take an old broken off shovel handle, drill a couple of holes for the rocker shaft studs, put on a couple of nuts and washers and lift it out. Have done that several times. Makes the job easier both removing and replacing.


How Sweet the roar of a Chevy four!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,021
Likes: 99
ChatMaster - 4,000
Offline
ChatMaster - 4,000
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,021
Likes: 99
Dave,

Thanks for the update. While I know it is not what you had hoped I am glad that you found a possible reason for the problem.

I agree that using an engine hoist to remove a head is the way to go. Just make sure all the bolts are removed before you start lifting!

I like to use guide pins when I assemble parts like the head. You know the gasket stays in place. If I have extra head bolts I cut the head off and put a slot in the end so I can remove it with a screwdriver. An alternative is to cut about 1/2” of thread length on the end of a rod cut to length. If I can get it easily I use an aluminum rod. It’s easy to cut and thread..


Rusty

VCCA #44680
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Offline
ChatMaster - 1,500
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
Lot's of good advice. I did not have any help so I did go out and buy an engine hoist. My third and last(I hope). The hoist did work well and I was able to go slow and easy. The head is at a good shop but the wait is several weeks.

Rusty the guide pins are a good idea and I have some left from a prior adventure.

Dave

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,373
Likes: 30
ChatMaster - 4,000
Online Content
ChatMaster - 4,000
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 4,373
Likes: 30
guide pins are great :) have them for several components on the 1929
engine hoist is safest and easiest if alone. it truly is a 2 person job to get it set :) sure some can do it alone, been there done that

Attached Images
20210718_185434.jpg

AACA - VCCA - Stovebolt - ChevyTalk
Love the Antique Chevrolet's from 1928-1932
The Beauty, Simplicity, History, and the Stories they Tell
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Offline
ChatMaster - 1,500
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
Getting things ready for the head to come back.

1. I measured all head bolts and they are all bout 4 3/16, maybe a hair less. I also went through a box of 20 or so head bolts I had been saving and all but one was the same. One was 4 1/4 and had an hour glass shape to it so it was obviously stretched. I don't see a problem reusing these but I may be missing something. Thoughts?

2. I am planning or retorquing in steps like 45, 55, and 65 in the proper order. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?

3. The head gasket has a smooth side and the side with folds around the openings. The one on the car was smooth side to the block but I was thinking smooth side to the head. Is there a proven way to put these on? Best Gasket says to use the copper coat but does not mention gasket orientation.

Thanks

Dave

Last edited by Dave39MD; 07/30/22 08:00 AM.
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 56
Likes: 3
Shade Tree Mechanic
Offline
Shade Tree Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 56
Likes: 3
Dave,
I would not use the bolt that is longer and has the hour glass shape. I believe the material has reached its yield strength and it no longer has its original strength. It may not be capable of being torqued down and will continue to elongate until it fails.

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,511
Likes: 47
ChatMaster - 3,000
Offline
ChatMaster - 3,000
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,511
Likes: 47
John Thorpe (VCCA member), who is a Certified Caterpillar Mechanic, told me that when rebuilding a motor, Caterpillar REQUIRES all bolts that can be stretched to be replaced with new ones. Sounds like a good idea to me.

In another vein, George Childs (another VCCA guy) found LOTS of wires in the water jacket of his 1933 engine when it was rebuilt. He also speculated that these wires were left over from the original casting process.

Cheers, Dean


Dean 'Rustoholic' Meltz
old and ugly is beautiful!



Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Offline
ChatMaster - 1,500
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
Good points. I have been measuring and checking for stretching and found one in the engine and about a third in my stash that were questionable. I used my calipers around the threads long wise and holding up to a light which catches many that are starting to stretch.

Thanks

Dave

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 2
ChatMaster - 1,500
Offline
ChatMaster - 1,500
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 2
If you hold another good bolt against it thread to thread any stretch will show up quickly. I went though 40-50 bolts to get a full set of good ones for my car.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Offline
ChatMaster - 1,500
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
Good idea Robin, thanks

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,566
Likes: 14
ChatMaster - 2,000
Offline
ChatMaster - 2,000
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,566
Likes: 14
There was a guy who made a bunch of high head head bolts years ago from VT, I believe. He now owns a performance bicycle shop. You can. Find him by google. He sometimes has an add on eBay selling head bolts. Myself and my buddy Joe Pirronne were able to get complete new sets for our 32 Olds flatheads from him. He did have 1/2x12 which I believe the chevy uses.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 19,756
Likes: 62
ChatMaster - 15,000
Offline
ChatMaster - 15,000
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 19,756
Likes: 62
I have used the thread to thread comparison for many, many years. Far quicker and at least as accurate as using a die. Bad to bad, bad to good or good to good doesn't matter. If the threads from both of then don't nest together at least one of them is bad. Even stretched bolts will have a section of good threads generally where they go into the block. It is the section that goes through the head that stretches. Almost always the worst section is just above where they thread into the block.


How Sweet the roar of a Chevy four!
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Offline
ChatMaster - 1,500
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
Yes, thread to thread was the way to go. Much quicker but my big box of head bolts is now a baggie of good ones.

Any ideas on the head gasket orientation?

Dave

Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,136
Likes: 75
ChatMaster - 1,000
Online Content
ChatMaster - 1,000
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,136
Likes: 75
Gaskets I've installed in the past which had their orientation marked on them put the rolled edges toward the head, and the plain side toward the block.
So I've always done it that way.

Also, over time the rolled edge of the fire ring will sometimes leave an imprint on the surface it contacts.
I've always thought it is much better for that imprint to be on the head than on the block.
It's easier to deal with imperfections on the head.

I could of course be wrong. :-)
If I am, someone please correct me.


Ole S Olson
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Offline
ChatMaster - 1,500
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
Thanks Stoveblt that make sense.

Dave

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
ChatMaster - 1,500
OP Offline
ChatMaster - 1,500
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 28
Got the head back, no cracks found. He surfaced the valves after replacing the guides. I put it together ran it a little and retorqued the head. The compression is now within 2 lbs of 60 on all cylinders. It ran okay but needed to be timed and the valves adjusted again. Runs better with adjustments but seems to lack power on pulling the hills around here in third gear. I may be expecting too much. No foaming coming out of the cap but I still see a slight amount when I open the cap. Old cars are fun.

Thanks

Dave

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 30,699
Likes: 141
ChatMaster - 25,000
Offline
ChatMaster - 25,000
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 30,699
Likes: 141
Over lubrication of grease for thewater pump bushings can cause foaming of coolant - grease getting in coolant and cooling system in general.


Gene Schneider
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 656
Likes: 3
Oil Can Mechanic
Offline
Oil Can Mechanic
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 656
Likes: 3
Is it staying cool now?

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Support The VCCA!

Enjoy the forum? Become a VCCA member! The World's Best Chevrolet and GMC Club!


Member Photos
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
1964 Chevrolet Impala SS
by DreamChevy, February 17
My 1933 Chevy 2 Dr. Sedan
My 1933 Chevy 2 Dr. Sedan
by 1939Chevy1, November 24
Back on the road 79 years later
2 1927 Chevrolet Trucks
2 1927 Chevrolet Trucks
by 1927TRUCKS, June 7
Who's Online Now
4 members (Keith Knox, Tiny, THH, cufrcp), 86 guests, and 46 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
NeilA, Jayhicks, Tomvanhouten, Dads29Chevy, Tractorman
18,308 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
aristech, RalphL, tonysk
Forum Statistics
Forums58
Topics59,071
Posts429,066
Members18,308
Most Online1,133
Jan 22nd, 2020
 

Notice: Any comments posted herein do not necessarily reflect the official position of the VCCA.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5